Professional Proofreading??

6 Jan

UPDATE: BusinessLetters was told by admin that it was against TOU and most of the listings have been changed.

Here’s a shop that is in violation of the TOS and nothing gets done about it. I know at least a half dozen people who have been flagging it for weeks. I think one person wrote to administration and got an answer back that this stuff can’t be sold. So why isn’t all this flagging and contacting administration doing any good?

Here’s the shop:
http://www.etsy.com/shop/BusinessLetters

And here’s some of what is being sold that is against the TOS:

Proofreading at $25 per half hour.
http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=37683609

Word help $8
http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?ref=vl_other_2&listing_id=37309393

Brainstorming $24 per half hour
http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?ref=vl_other_2&listing_id=37191806

Tag proofreading $40 for three pages
http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?ref=vl_other_2&listing_id=36105307

Shop title review and rewrite:
http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?ref=vl_other_2&listing_id=35322225

Now I thought services weren’t allowed if they weren’t for a tangible item? Proofreading and editing aren’t tangible. If sellers can’t offer photo manipulation or retouching, then why can editing be ok to sell? Doesn’t seem fair to all those who wanted to offer photo retouching and were closed down. This seller claims to be a “professional writer” but check out the shop announcement- doesn’t even know where to use comma’s, and a dangling preposition at the end of a sentence? No professional writer is going to break that rule. Most of us learned in 6th grade that dangling prepositions are a big no-no. What a joke!

If Etsy is allowing this type of service to be sold, then please Etsy, let the photo retouching sellers return. I can imagine how many freelance writers will jump on this bandwagon if this is allowed to be sold and how many photo retouching services (including me) will be pissed.

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316 Responses to “Professional Proofreading??”

  1. Life During Wartime January 6, 2010 at 8:22 pm #

    I like this bit in the shop announcement:

    ” I can also nicely tell an unreasonable person to get stuffed and they won’t know they were told that until hours later when it belatedly sinks in.”

    Uhhhh…sometimes in person you have to use a bit of manipulation to put an end to a fruitless argument. When the parties are ready to resolve the issue, they can agree to ‘forget’ about any thoughtless words which were exchanged. But sending someone a manipulating email is going to leave the seller holding the burning bag of doggie poo. Because, when ‘hours later…it belatedly sinks in’, the customer will have the seller’s email with full headers on a text telling them (nicely?) to get stuffed.

    I guess it was not my imagination when last year I began to get the impression that Etsy was a parthenogenic breeding colony of Mean Girls.

  2. Tired January 6, 2010 at 8:28 pm #

    on fb now: http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=36532391&ref=fp_feat_3 nothing like stuffing your tags.

  3. Tired January 6, 2010 at 8:32 pm #

    fp not fb… see I AM tired.

  4. Voice January 6, 2010 at 8:39 pm #

    I do find this objectionable on Etsy — there is nothing handmade about proofreading. I would never think to offer my copyediting services on Etsy, that’s ridiculous. Photo retouching should not be allowed either.

    But someone acting as the grammar police probably should refrain from pluralizing “commas” with an apostrophe. And perhaps refrain from relying on sixth grade knowledge which is not entirely accurate.

  5. January's Girl January 6, 2010 at 8:51 pm #

    The writing is stilted and forced. I can’t imagine why anyone would purchase proofreading at those prices, and I can’t imagine why she considers herself a professional writer.

  6. Amy Lynn January 6, 2010 at 9:21 pm #

    I don’t think I’ll be paying $15 for her to tell me how to write a “tactful” message that will make me appear, for lack of a better phrase, a condescending bitch, from the way it’s described above.

  7. sputnik January 6, 2010 at 9:25 pm #

    Quite a few photo retouching services still being offered
    http://www.etsy.com/search_results.php?search_type=handmade&search_query=photo+retouching
    Drop shipping isn’t allowed either and they do nothing about that
    http://www.etsy.com/search_results.php?search_query=%22drop+shipped%22&search_type=handmade&category=&includes%5B%5D=description&min=&max=&ship_to=&order=date_desc&view_type=gallery
    In short Etsy doesn’t really care. They are well on their way to becoming another ebay, huge garage sale on the net.

  8. WindyR January 6, 2010 at 9:32 pm #

    How did anyone come across this shop to begin with? I would never have thought to search out a proofreading/copywriting service on etsy. The shop has made some sales, and has positive feedback – but it does seem inappropriate to etsy. However, they do allow people to sell those etsy success guides too – which always seemed a little strange to me. However, I can understand selling tutorials on how to make something – especially if you developed a unique technique. I’m curious to hear other opinions on this.

  9. sputnik January 6, 2010 at 9:38 pm #

    Does Etsy consider a pdf tangible? It’s no more or less tangible than a manipulated jpg. If they don’t then why so many people making “greeting cards” and sending pdf files for printing?
    Very slippery slope like the Vintage category that’s making Etsy look more and more like a junk yard every day.

  10. uh-huh January 6, 2010 at 9:51 pm #

    I noticed it by seeing her other shop, as she’s vocal in the etsy forums…. I also thought ‘wtf?’ when I saw proofreading services, not to mention the prices.

  11. Voice January 6, 2010 at 9:58 pm #

    Etsy has said a pdf is a tangible item, in the case of graphic design, and this seller (and others) have taken that to mean that as long as they send some sort of pdf back to the buyer that makes offering the service OK.

  12. Crazy Cat Lady January 6, 2010 at 10:06 pm #

    I believe she was encouraged to open this shop, as she is always giving advice in the forums with her other shop. Maybe that’s why admin is looking the other way? I don’t know. But “condescending bitch” is spot-on. I couldn’t quite put my finger on it, but that’s exactly how I read it.

  13. sputnik January 6, 2010 at 10:09 pm #

    Okay then if pdf files are tangible anyone doing photo manipulation or retouching should just send the file back as a pdf, easy peasy. Not that I want to make the problem bigger but if Etsy is going to leave holes the size of the planet earth, then well, use them.
    As for drop shipping, I checked and it’s still not allowed and it appears that Etsy is doing nothing to curtail that.
    It’s pretty much a free for all and so they might as well just allow everything since they don’t actually do anything about people breaking their rules.

  14. BusinessLetters January 6, 2010 at 10:17 pm #

    My shop is legal; I am sorry if Etsy changed any rules to allow my shop and others’ who offer the same services/ tangible end-product to be there, but we are Etsy legal. Writing and writing products *are* allowed on Etsy.

    Again, I am sorry if the rules were changed but we (and there are several of us) are not doing anything wrong by Etsy’s current rules…

  15. Voice January 6, 2010 at 10:25 pm #

    When did they change the rules to allow this? I know others asked in the past and were told it was not OK, so at some point it explicitly wasn’t allowed.

  16. sputnik January 6, 2010 at 10:30 pm #

    @BusinessLetters, I’m sorry you have to be condescending so you can feel better about yourself.
    Perhaps you should spend a little more time proofreading your own copy before trying to sell your service.

  17. BusinessLetters January 6, 2010 at 10:31 pm #

    I *asked* Admin before I opened. I was told it was fine. I am one of many listing this type of service. I gather the rule changed around the time it became okay to do graphic designs (same idea, deliver a pdf).

    Jiminy Christmas, thanks for torpedo-ing my legal Etsy shop.

  18. crapgawker January 6, 2010 at 11:38 pm #

    This type of shop is not the direction I want to see Etsy take. As the rules are relaxed the floodgates will open. Where will the line be drawn?

    If it’s not handmade by the Seller, truly vintage or a supply (and I cannot fathom how anything in this shop would constitute any of those three), it does not belong on Etsy.

    That being said, the sad thing is many Etsy shops could actually do with her services. I don’t know whether to laugh or cry when I see some of the deplorable grammar, punctuation and spelling.

  19. Tired January 7, 2010 at 12:27 am #

    Nothing screams professional like blurry puppy pictures with awful white lettering. I hope you aren’t providing graphic help too.

    I finally realized what these type of shops remind me of! Remember the guy with all the ?’s on his jacket? He screamed a lot about how to get money from the government. You have created nothing, you are selling information.

    If people actually cared about their crafts they would learn how to represent themselves professional, not just pay someone to think for them.

    Let’s just turn Etsy into a big infomercial, screw quality.

  20. Life During Wartime January 7, 2010 at 1:25 am #

    Tired Says: “If people actually cared about their crafts they would learn how to represent themselves professional, not just pay someone to think for them.”

    Yes! I sold stuff in bricks and mortar co-ops before our area had internet access, and it was tough at first to deal gracefully with mocking comments, or even legitimate criticism, about either my handmade items or my antiques offerings (different co-ops). I had been in human resources and then IT before that, and had never worked in retail as a student or for a career. It’s a learning curve you have to travel about dealing with shoppers, customers, competitors, wise-arse critics, and outright nutcases. Paying someone to be your ethics, your personality, your feelings and your brain won’t get you down that road.

  21. Seriously January 7, 2010 at 5:33 am #

    I searched for “writing service” and came up with 21 listings, six of them were for Business Letters shop. That’s not “many” as the shop owner wrote.

    I think it’s deplorable that Etsy is allowing this. Why would they allow writing services? The TOS say you can’t take a pair of slacks and hem them because the slacks aren’t your original product. Proofreading isn’t an original product either.

    I agree with the comment about opening a floodgate. It sure will.

    The shop owner herself says that she thinks it’s okay because she’s delivering a pdf file. So, let’s all put anything we want into a pdf file and sell it!

    I have to agree too, the shop announcement does show the shop owner doesn’t have great grammar skills. Maybe that’s why only five sales?!?

  22. hmmmm2 January 7, 2010 at 6:06 am #

    I wrote administration a couple weeks ago and asked if I could sell writing services for shop descriptions and announcements and was told “Sorry, no. We don’t allow writing services.”

    Apparently, there’s selective enforcement of the TOS. Must be I’m not one of the “in” crowd.

  23. tsktsk January 7, 2010 at 6:27 am #

    Oh noes! She is going to sue!

  24. hmmmm2 January 7, 2010 at 6:28 am #

    Thanks for posting that forum thread. I am going to write administration to ask why I was told no and she is claiming in her forum post that an administrator asked her why it took her so long to open. My letter from administration ends with “sorry we cannot allow this to be listed.”

    This really sounds selective and discriminatory to me. Does it to you?

  25. MadeByM**** January 7, 2010 at 6:39 am #

    “BusinessLetters says:
    Flanders, all I have are twitter messages, emails, and others offering the same services before my listings. In any event, I am NOT fond of being made the poster child on scolding blogs….

    I’ll sue if the blog post doesn’t drop. I have rainy day $$… ”

    Nice………….

    The blog post is just pointing out that your shop is a “service” and it does not belong on Etsy……it’s not a handmade, hand-altered, hand assembled art or craft, it’s not a craft supply nor is it vintage.

  26. CAT January 7, 2010 at 6:47 am #

    There are 2 sellers in that thread that say they were given flat out no’s about selling writing services. Busterandboo and Flanderfield.

    Etsy, your favoritism is showing.

  27. uh-huh January 7, 2010 at 7:07 am #

    She’s gonna sue? Over these few comments? *snort* A few posts questioning if her uh, “items”, follow the site TOU is hardly a massive slander campaign.

  28. CAT January 7, 2010 at 7:22 am #

    Now echoart is saying in that thread that she was “specifically” told proofreading was not allowed.

    WTF? Why would so many other sellers be told no and one be told yes?

  29. MadeByM**** January 7, 2010 at 7:26 am #

    Just like at my job, you can tell a client what the correct answer is, but then they take what they want to hear out of your whole answer, and it totally changes the meaning of it…….it’s getting to where I prefer to answer my clients in writing, that way I can “prove” what I said!!!

  30. WindyR January 7, 2010 at 7:47 am #

    I am sorry to hear that the shop owner is so upset – I think this whole issue brings up a very legitimate issue that has been dogging etsy since I can remember – the TOU are not consistently enforced and probably need to be clarified. As I stated in my previous post, I thought it was odd that etsy allowed help guides to be sold, but I don’t have a problem with craft tutorials – to which sputnik responded with some really valid points. I don’t take this thread as a criticism of the shop owner (clearly her clients are happy with her services as she has all positive feedback) but with etsy – perhaps they need to include a services or tutorials section now along with vintage, handmade and supplies. Personally I don’t think that’s the best direction for etsy either, but I really see this whole discussion as a criticism of etsy and their lax enforcement/support of their own rules. Instead of twittering and writing fluffy articles, etsy needs to spend more time monitoring what goes on there – and if etsy did indeed tell this shop owner her products are OK, then why have other vendors been told that services such as this can’t be sold. I don’t think most of the posters on this thread have any issue with the shop owner herself, and it’s unfortunate that it’s being interpreted that way.

  31. MadeByM**** January 7, 2010 at 7:58 am #

    Exactly, WindyR! Like I said in the thread, people are questioning the integrity of Etsy, not her “craft”. Yes, writing is an art form, no doubt, but Etsy’s direction is not that of handmade anymore, and that’s the real issue at hand!

  32. KR January 7, 2010 at 8:06 am #

    What is the difference between this kind of service and the sellers who sell etsy financial planners or ‘how to sells successfully’ on etsy?

    The seller is in the forums a lot, she has a legit, jewelry design shop.

    I don’t see a problem here, especially if they allow the other written stuff like planner sheets and etsy how-to books.

  33. CAT January 7, 2010 at 8:08 am #

    I agree with you WindyR. It is not right for Etsy to tell so many others that they can’t sell these services and tell one seller that they can. This is what causes all the hositlity and complaints of favoritism. Etsy needs consistent policies and needs to enforce them.

    I don’t agree that proofreading should be sold because it’s not tangible. If it is going to be allowed, then photo work should be too, because they both take original work from a buyer and alter it.

    I would be upset if I was told I couldn’t sell something only to find out someone else was told they could sell the same thing. It wreaks of favoritism and that’s what irritates so many sellers. They need to get their act together, make consistent rules, and enforce them equally.

  34. CAT January 7, 2010 at 8:11 am #

    I think KR it’s the proofreading service that is the problem. Proofreading is not tangible. Writing tutorials and how to’s are created by the seller. Proofreading is taking someone else’s work and altering it. Therein lies the difference.

  35. CAT January 7, 2010 at 8:17 am #

    I think this is the button-pusher. This is what she wrote in th forum.

    “BusinessLetters says:
    Flanders, as was I, but it changed around late Sept/ early Nov. I don’t know what made Etsy change but they decided to allow proofreading and revamping about then (run a search). When I finally opened my shop I had an admin ask why it took so long….”

    So, there’s other sellers in the forum claiming they were told they couldn’t sell writing services (Busterandboo, Echoart and Flanderfield), so commenting that she had an admin ask why it took so long is a slap in the faces of those who were told no.

    This is a real Ety bad.

  36. KR January 7, 2010 at 8:21 am #

    Ok Cat, I see what you mean.

    But if someone proofreads your work doesn’t that improve your shop, too? Isn’t she selling one (super small) detail of what helps an etsy shop succeed? There are so many ‘how-to etsy success” sellers on etsy. She is selling her advice– maybe if she put it in writing then it would be tangible?

    I’m just ruminating, but I see your point Cat.

  37. RocksInMySocks January 7, 2010 at 8:25 am #

    I believe this shop came about during one of the countless veiled promo threads she started (under her other shop name)in which she offered advice on how to respond to “problem” customers. She fancies herself the expert on everything under the sun, I believe. Did someone mention “condescending bitch” here or was it my imagination?

  38. Can't sue for opinions or examples... January 7, 2010 at 8:43 am #

    I don’t think the store owner in the OP can sue this blog since this is about Etsy and their favoritism and spotty enforcement of the rules. Her shop is just used as an example. As for the comments, well, they are opinions which are allowed. There is not slander or libel in the OP or the comments.

    This is a slippery slope. I don’t think anything like this should be allowed. And why would anyone with a small business want to hire out their business writing? It’s your store and your product and you need to learn to deal with all aspects of business.

    As for her being told by a certain admin it was “fine and what took her so long” and others being told flat out “no” then clearly Etsy has a huge problem here. Either it is blatant favoritism or Etsy is completely incapable to making and following their own rules.

    Either way Etsy=Fail.

  39. CAT January 7, 2010 at 8:46 am #

    Proofreading isn’t selling advise. That would be a service. Selling by time increments seems a bit shady too. I don’t see how that can be conforming with the TOS.

    Etsy is supposed to be for tangible products- one that already exists. Writing for someone doesn’t exist until after the transaction is complete.

    I think it’s opening a big can of worms.

  40. JK January 7, 2010 at 8:54 am #

    Rocks, if it was your imagination then yours must be working with mine! I can’t stand her smug, superior, self-satisfied tone no matter which account she’s using (and I don’t see her other shop disclosed in her ‘business’ incarnation, either).

  41. hmmm2 January 7, 2010 at 9:09 am #

    Opinion is not actionable in a defamation case. Also, one has to be accused of criminal activity (which she is not) or prove a loss of business because of non-opine words. Loss of business is very hard to prove because she would have to bring scores of potential clients to court to testify that they did not do business with her because of something they read. Proving a loss is very difficult to do.

    She does, on the other hand, want to be sure she has liablility insurance if she is offering a service such as ” I can also nicely tell an unreasonable person to get stuffed and they won’t know they were told that until hours later when it belatedly sinks in.”

    The person on the receiving end of a letter as such could have an actionable case if the letter is too harsh or inflamatory, because she is the author and the letter could potentially be moved from “defamation” to “harassment” and land her in a legal mess. The buyer can also stake a legal claim if the service delivered is not as promised or for any errors.

    The liability insurance for writers not insured by employers, is called “errors and omissions” and it costs around $2,500 annually, depending on your education and experience. Most freelance writers carry it because freelancing is risky business, especially if you are doing it in a business setting.

    Irrespective of any of this, I was told that I couldn’t offer any type of writing service and she was told she could. This is contradictory and it’s wrong.

  42. uh-huh January 7, 2010 at 9:10 am #

    The disclosure is given, at the bottom but just in writing not as a link, next to where it says the prices will be going up in future.

  43. Can't sue for opinions or examples... January 7, 2010 at 9:16 am #

    hmmm2 is right on the money. Especially about liability issues.

    I do hope BusinessLetters understands that she can get into a lot of hot water by writing for another business. Plus, if the person she sells the letter to changes the letter, which she has no control over, she could dragged into another type of mess.

    All in all I don’t find this a good thing for Etsy to allow or for most sellers to offer unless they are well versed in the legal issues attached and have business insurance.

  44. Amy Lynn January 7, 2010 at 9:29 am #

    I too think this is a slippery slope. It needs to be either all or nothing, and I’m leaning towards nothing. I like the floodgate example, that’s exactly what will happen, and there’s just too much crap to get into with all the liability issues. As far as the integrity of Etsy goes, this is a definite no.

    LOVE how she goes running to the forums to get reassurance from all the “nice” people.

  45. MrsRB January 7, 2010 at 9:33 am #

    I reported this seller when the shop opened. How can someone who is NOT an Etsy employee write letters concerning Etsy issues? She would have to know the Etsy TOU’s inside and out. She’s giving “advice” on how to deal with Etsy customers. and she’s NOT an Etsy employee.

    Wrong.

    This shop should be closed down.

  46. hmmm2 January 7, 2010 at 9:33 am #

    Thus far, there are four of us who have been given a no from administration. How many others are out there?

    This just isn’t fair. This isn’t about the shop owner. It’s about Etsy and their inability to make up their minds as to what is and isn’t allowed.

    It also raises the question as to why photo retouching isn’t allowed.

  47. sputnik January 7, 2010 at 9:37 am #

    With the way that Etsy admins apply their own personal view of what is and isn’t allowed Etsy has already started down the slippery slope. There are so many shops out there breaking rules with tags, reselling, drop shipping, copyright infringement and Etsy promotes them, ignores the flags and collects their fees. Long gone are the days of Etsy being a place to buy handmade. If I were new to Etsy today I think I might not bother shopping there. My first purchase was a pair of mittens, if you do a search now, they are hard to find in the sea of mistagged items. I think this new direction of turning their heads at the rule breakers and law breakers (copyright) for that matter is going to hurt legitimate handmade sellers, well it probably already has.
    I think I saw a post a few days back about Etsy’s apathy, it was spot on.

  48. January's Girl January 7, 2010 at 9:44 am #

    I love how people in the forum are calling this a meanie blog and saying sellers should mind their own business. Erm, reselling and selling etsy-illegal things hurts ALL sellers! Pretending to be “nice” while letting all the crap in and we all sink is really a numb-nuts thing to do. I sometimes wonder about the business sense of most etsy sellers – but then again, that may be why this shop would do well – many etsy sellers don’t have any business sense.

  49. uh-huh January 7, 2010 at 9:46 am #

    Apparently we’re also jealous and need to get lives.

  50. MrsRB January 7, 2010 at 9:51 am #

    I don’t really see what is so mean about these posts. (Ok, maybe condecending bitch) People are just discussing preferential treatment to Etsys favorites and Etsy not playing fair with all sellers. The same rules should apply to everyone.

  51. hmmm2 January 7, 2010 at 9:56 am #

    I just noticed this sentence she has in her shop announcement.

    ” I can also nicely tell an unreasonable person to get stuffed and they won’t know they were told that until hours later when it belatedly sinks in.”

    It should read “also can” not “can also.”

  52. hmmm2 January 7, 2010 at 9:57 am #

    I just noticed that sentence she has in her shop announcement.
    It should read “also can” not “can also.”
    Professional writer?

  53. hmmm2 January 7, 2010 at 9:58 am #

    Sorry for the double post. I was trying to edit and something went whacky.

  54. gifteddesigns January 7, 2010 at 10:19 am #

    I have never once thought of Lucinda’s comments and advice on Etsy as either condescending or bitchy, merely helpful.

    Favoritism is nothing new on Etsy.

    I find it amusing that people say it’s all about Etsy but then start denigrating her personally by calling her a condescending bitch, mocking her item images and laughing at her because she’s understandably upset at being on this blog.

    If you want to keep it about Etsy, then keep it about Etsy. If she was told this shop was legit where others were told otherwise, that’s not her fault and she shouldn’t be eating everyone’s crap because of it.

    Hopefully Admin WILL pop up on that thread and if they do say Proofreading is a no-no, she’ll gladly remove the items in her shop that violate TOS and we’ll all have an answer.

    It’s great that people are actively working on trying to get resellers and crap-sellers off Etsy, but I think the mark was missed on this one seeing as if she IS violating TOS, it’s basically with Etsy’s permission right now and that’s not her fault.

  55. hmmm2 January 7, 2010 at 10:29 am #

    I am not upset with the shop owner. I am upset with administration. We are now up to five sellers who have been told we can’t offer writing and/or proofreading services. She has been asked to come back to the forum thread to tell who gave her permission. A few have asked. It would be good to know which administrators aren’t on the same page.

  56. Ryyra January 7, 2010 at 10:29 am #

    Seems a slippery slope to walk. How does the ability to type and put words together suddenly make one a professional writer? It opens up too many cans of worms. In my opinion, it shouldn’t be allowed. It’s a service no matter how you look at it.

  57. ohmeohmy January 7, 2010 at 11:13 am #

    These posts really should be about the fact that etsy admin utilizes favortism at a whim, giving one seller the go-ahead and others, a “no” and that it’s against the Tou’s.

    Picking apart the seller’s words as incorrect grammar and calling her a “condenscending bitch” is really innapropriate. I have never known her to have a mean word to anyone. She is helpful on the forums, funny, and very sweet.

    So Let’s keep this discussion on track about the real issue.

  58. notvintage January 7, 2010 at 11:16 am #

    BusinessLetters says:
    Flanders, all I have are twitter messages, emails, and others offering the same services before my listings. In any event, I am NOT fond of being made the poster child on scolding blogs….

    I’ll sue if the blog post doesn’t drop. I have rainy day $$…
    Posted at 2:04 am, January 7 2010 EST – Report this post

    So, start a thread so everyone can read it? STUPID.
    Thinking you would have an actionable case? STUPID.
    Not realizing that it will cost you at least $300 for some lawyer to tell you that? STUPID, AGAIN.

    From someone who taught HS English for decades: Your writing skills “ain’t all that”.

  59. sputnik January 7, 2010 at 11:23 am #

    I hope she tries to sue, I love these people who like to throw out the “I’ll sue” crap. When big companies do it they call it a SLAPP suit. She could open herself to be counter-sued and that, would be a valid suit. As long as people don’t knowingly lie or post false information there are no grounds for a suit. Name calling isn’t illegal and positing opinion isn’t either. If she wants to waste her rainy day money on this non-sense then she gets what she deserves.
    She is selling a service, if Etsy told her that she could, shame on them, if she is just saying that, shame on her.

  60. Nobody Understands My Pain Either January 7, 2010 at 11:32 am #

    From Etsy’s TOU: “Simply tailoring, restoring or repairing an item is not considered handmade.”

    Wouldn’t proofreading be considered a “repair?”

    In addition: “Any service that does not yield a new, tangible, physical item is not allowed.” Again, proofreading does not offer a new item – it is simply a repair of an old one.

    I know that we’re not allowed to post private conversations on the Etsy forums, but I would really be interested in some sort of proof of Lucinda being told that it was ok for her shop to violate the TOU.

    As far as people being mean on this blog – this blog is nothing compared to the Etsy forums. Back when I was relatively new, I asked a question about how to sell an item that was listed in my shop to someone who did NOT want to go through the Etsy checkout process. The customer was legitimate, she just found the checkout process to be confusing. I wanted to see if there was anyway that I could do this and still be “Etsy legal.” I was accused of trying to open a sock puppet account, fee avoidance, calling out (posting private conversations) – it was unbelievably ridiculous and very disheartening. I never went back to the forums for advice again. There are indeed nice people on the Etsy forums, just as there are on this blog. The Etsy forums are also filled with the mean, arrogant, condescending, popular cheerleader types, who will verbally beat you into the ground for the simple crime of asking a question.

  61. uh-huh January 7, 2010 at 11:36 am #

    And of course admin closed the thread with the same old vague answer and we’ll never, never know.

  62. sputnik January 7, 2010 at 11:39 am #

    uh-huh they cleared it right up! If we like you and we told you go ahead then proceed as usual. If we told you no then you better not dare.
    Anyone that thought that there would be an official answer is just being silly. They did leave Lucinda hanging out there in the wind though.

  63. gifteddesigns January 7, 2010 at 11:41 am #

    There may be nice people on this blog, but if there are, they haven’t appeared on this particular post.

    Ohmeohmy, I highly doubt they will…they seem to be enjoying attacking the seller too much.

    But it’s about Etsy playing favorites, doncha know?

  64. Nobody Understands My Pain Either January 7, 2010 at 11:55 am #

    gifteddesigns-

    I beg to differ. I have not said a single negative thing about Lucinda or her new shop. I only questioned whether or not proofreading was allowed, as the TOU seems to indicate that it is not. If Lucinda was told that she was fine to proceed, and others were told that it was NOT fine to proceed – well, yes. That does seem to indicate some favoritism.

    I also relayed the story of my own experience in the Etsy forums, where I felt so beat up that I never asked a question there again.

    Asking questions and relaying your personal experiences does not make you a bad person.

  65. JK January 7, 2010 at 12:02 pm #

    Oh, what crap:

    ‘HeyMichelle says:
    Hi there,

    Please see here for Etsy’s relevant policies:

    http://www.etsy.com/dosdonts.php#services

    If you have questions about whether your specific shop or items are allowed, please email us at content [!at] etsy.com. If we have told you that your items are fine, then please proceed as normal. Thanks!’

    So that means Lucinda gets to sell proofreading while everyone else who was told ‘No’ still has to abide by the rules? Come on, admin — can’t you at least try to play fair?

  66. crapgawker January 7, 2010 at 12:03 pm #

    @ #64 gifteddesigns – Oh my! I made it such a point to keep any snitty little personal remarks OUT of my previous post (#18).

    Well then, back to charm school for me (where I was bottom of the class) ……..

  67. MadeByM**** January 7, 2010 at 12:08 pm #

    gifteddesigns………the majority are…there’s always one or two that go too far, but that’s everywhere, just like on Etsy’s forums! Don’t judge us all by a couple of comments……

  68. Bedazzled VONdom January 7, 2010 at 12:17 pm #

    “I’ll sue if the blog post doesn’t drop.”

    One would hope a “professional writer” would know better than to make such an asinine, impotent threat. Best scrape together a few bucks and go consult an attorney* before you look like even more of a nitwit than you do now.

    *an actual attorney, one actually licensed to practice in your state, not an internet “professional lawyer.”

    Don’t worry though. You’re still not the Blog Poster Child.

    VONLADY IS!

    VIVA LA VONLADY!
    HIP HIP HOORAY FOR VONLADY!
    (((((VONLADY))))))

  69. uh-huh January 7, 2010 at 12:24 pm #

    “stellaloella says:
    Hi everyone. I appreciate the desire for clarity on this issue. The DOs & DON’Ts cannot possibly cover each and every example for every situation or type of item (that document is already a mile long).

    Michelle gave the correct link to the section of the DOs & DON’Ts for Services: http://www.etsy.com/dosdonts.php#services

    Proofreading or editing implies that one party provides an item to another party for fixing or improvement. This is a service much like tailoring for clothing or repairing an item. This type of service is not allowed, as noted in the first bullet of the Services policy.

    Writing a custom piece of text from scratch would be similar to custom graphic design work, which creates a new tangible item in the form of a digital file based on the specifications of the customer. This example is noted in the second bullet of the Services policy.

    I’d also like to remind everyone not to discuss other shops or items publicly on the Forums in manner that implies a seller is breaking the rules. That’s calling out. If you find something questionable, please flag it privately.

    Thanks! ”

    …..so there’s the answer.

  70. WindyR January 7, 2010 at 12:25 pm #

    In response to #64 – I disagree wholeheartedly that all the posters on this blog are mean people – I took the trouble to point out that she has excellent feedback – my concern is the vague and inconsistent way etsy enforces its TOU which is discouraging to the sellers who try to follow the rules to the best of their understanding. I agree that maybe some of the posts might have veered into some personal territory, but that happens every day in the etsy forums – overall I think this has been a good discussion of what is SO confusing and unfair about etsy’s TOU and their enforcement of the TOU. And the response from the admin in the last post that closed the thread certainly doesn’t make anything clearer.

  71. MadeByM**** January 7, 2010 at 12:25 pm #

    New thread started……

    http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6397112

  72. boo January 7, 2010 at 12:27 pm #

    http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6397112&page=1

    new thread -stella posted that proofreading is NOT allowed. A straight answer!!!

  73. yay no proofreading allowed January 7, 2010 at 12:27 pm #

    Yay, per stellaoella proofreading is NOT allowed!

    http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6397112

  74. WindyR January 7, 2010 at 12:29 pm #

    Well, regardless of anyone’s opinion on this matter, at least a definitive answer has been posted, which is what should have happened a few hours ago when that 20 page or so thread went on and on in the forums concerning this issue.

  75. janicejoplin2 January 7, 2010 at 12:31 pm #

    This blog is a wonderful place to call out resellers, mass produced crap, and non vintage. It has gotten these shops closed. We have seen it time and time again.

    I am disappointed in the way that Lucinda has been personally attacked on this blog. Who wouldn’t feel defensive. Some remarks have been hurtful and just mean spirited.

    Etsy is an international site. If I did not have command of the English language I would find the services provided very beneficial.

    It is imperative that Etsy Admin. clean this mess up. It is either allowed or not allowed.

    Favoritism is NEVER a good business practice.

    Sure forums can be a tough place to hang out. When they turn nasty or bullying I draw the line. I will call out the person who is doing the bullying. It is especially appalling to me when a newbie is the target.

    I have been the target of forum abuse and I appreciated those who came to my defense both on the forums and via convo. Lucinda was one of those. I just wanted to tell Lucinda that I have her back just as she had mine.

    Trudy

  76. Sarah January 7, 2010 at 12:41 pm #

    Oh no! Admittedly I admire DesignedbyLucinda (aka BusinessLetters) for her tactful approach on most issues. I’m not sure I like the new shop she opened, sadly. :-/

    This looks like a “Shame on Etsy” issue, though.

  77. Life During Wartime January 7, 2010 at 12:41 pm #

    OMG I read the linked thread (now closed by admin with) where posters said my first comment above was so mean. I almost feel I should take that as a compliment coming from that crew.

    Ladies on the Etsy Forum: I’ve been selling online for nearly a decade. I’ve had difficult customers. Never have I felt the need to blow someone off or send them a ‘get stuffed’ mail wrapped in a simper. Good business practice suggests you treat every customer as you would want to be treated, and then go beyond that if necessary. I make myself available until the customer is happy. The kind of service that provides ghost written brush off letters reflects poorly on what kind of experience a buyer can expect when shopping on Etsy should some problem arise with a transaction.

    The lawsuit remark was a pile of horsehockey, and she should know it. This is my opinion, dammit. She is offering her services described in a way that could be offensive to Etsy buyers, of which I am (was?) one. No grounds, hon.

  78. sputnik January 7, 2010 at 12:43 pm #

    Color me shocked! I can admit when I am wrong and I was wrong about Etsy not providing a clear answer. I am thrilled that they did and wish they could make this a habit. One should not have to be called out or call Etsy out to get a straight answer.
    I do appreciate that Stella addressed the issue.

  79. Can't sue for opinions or examples... January 7, 2010 at 12:47 pm #

    So basically about 1/3 of her shop listings are not allowed because they are basically “editing” or proofreading.

    Want to take bets about whether she removes them or etsy makes her remove them.

    My money is on favoritism and she gets to do whatever she damn well pleases.

    Again, Etsy=Fail

  80. Voice January 7, 2010 at 12:53 pm #

    Nice to have a definitive answer. I assume the proofreading services will be going away, along with the ones for cleaning up tags, etc. Not that these are not valuable services for Etsy sellers, but they need to be gotten elsewhere (and it isn’t hard AT ALL to find this kind of service other places on the Internet).

    As for the comments on Lucinda’s writing abilities, come on — who among us, even pro writers, editors, or teachers, uses perfect grammar and punctuation at all times? Even the poster above with “decades of teaching HS English” has a punctuation error. Good business writing — in fact, good writing of any kind — is not always about following every rule to the letter. If you don’t know that, you don’t know writing.

  81. Life During Wartime January 7, 2010 at 12:53 pm #

    The new thread includes an admin response (OMG the world is ending!) that clearly states the shop in this post is violating the TOU by offering proofreading services. Still available in her shop….

  82. janicejoplin2 January 7, 2010 at 12:55 pm #

    Yes I am glad also that Stella cleared that up! I’ll take that bet can’tsue.. She’ll take them down.

  83. Can't sue for opinions or examples... January 7, 2010 at 12:55 pm #

    She’ll never remove them and won’t be made to since HeyMichelle said that anyone who has been told something is fine can continue as usual regardless of the rules.

    That’s straight up BS.

  84. Can't sue for opinions or examples... January 7, 2010 at 1:01 pm #

    http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6397065

  85. janicejoplin2 January 7, 2010 at 1:05 pm #

    Oh then I take my bet back I did not see that can’tsue..

    To me it’s an all or none thing….I do not like the fact that some have been turned down and some have not.

  86. Can't sue for opinions or examples... January 7, 2010 at 1:11 pm #

    It *should* be all or nothing and it’s not fair to the people who have been told no. It’s also not fair to allow someone to continue selling an item that is not allowed just because one admin told them it was.

    Etsy=Fail

  87. Crazy Cat Lady January 7, 2010 at 1:14 pm #

    Life During Wartime, I agree. I’ve also been selling on line for about a decade now, and have never had to tell a buyer to “get stuffed”. Sure, sometimes I’ve had to walk away from the computer and come back a few hours later with a calmer head…but good business practices and passive aggressive “get stuffed” generally don’t go together. And my feedback reflects it.

    Voice, yes it’s true we all make grammar mistakes! I do as well and I was an English major and pride myself on writing. However, if I was going to pay someone $20 to write for me her grammar better be perfect, kwim? Doing it myself vs. paying someone to do it; I have different standards.

  88. uh-huh January 7, 2010 at 1:18 pm #

    Huh. Wonder what will the “unreasonable person” do, hours later, when they finally realize they’ve been told to “get stuffed”?

  89. janicejoplin2 January 7, 2010 at 1:24 pm #

    I agree 100% can’tsue. Set in stone..no exceptions. Exceptions only causes conflict and uprising.

    Let’s say I was told specifically via a convo that I can tag my art as vintage because I distress a piece of wood and sand it down to make it look old. Others have asked to do so and have been refused this precious tag.

    It would cause uproar in the vintage category as well as the art community. No exceptions should EVER be allowed. It polarizes the entire community!

  90. Nicole January 7, 2010 at 1:25 pm #

    I take from the comment locking the thread (saying anyone who’s been told something is fine can carry on) that the store owner was not told proofreading was fine, considering the next comment from Michelle states clearly that proofreading is not ok.

  91. Amy Lynn January 7, 2010 at 1:28 pm #

    Just to clarify, I never said she herself was a condescending bitch, just that her “how to tell someone no” template seems like it would make the seller appear as one.

  92. KR January 7, 2010 at 1:48 pm #

    I don’t understand the “favoritism” charge. Why would Lucinda be a favorite with Etsy admin? Does she send them pies, too?

    I honestly think its just one admin person saying something different from another admin person. I bet if she asked months ago “is this okay?” to a *couple* of Admins she’d get a *couple* a different answer from each one of them.

    The fault is with Etsy for their untrained personnel who work for a company that does not have a clear vision of what it is.

    How smart was Lucinda to only ask ONE etsy person who gave her the answer she wanted?

  93. Nicole January 7, 2010 at 1:53 pm #

    The first listings in the store are for purely ‘writing’ services, not proofreading. I’d bet that the store owner did not specifically ask if proofreading was ok before she opened.

  94. KR January 7, 2010 at 1:56 pm #

    Nicole that is probably very true. (also sorry for all my typos ..sheesh.)

  95. Life During Wartime January 7, 2010 at 1:57 pm #

    In Lucinda’s place, I would have asked the admin who gave me the OK when the TOU would be changed, and then wait for the official change before proceeding. If she had to contact admin for permission, then she was aware that proofreading wasn’t allowed. The permission convo she received is just a version of ‘but Mommy said I could’ when Daddy brings you up short for doing something he just told you yesterday you couldn’t. Filed with ‘the dog ate my homework’. Etsy sellers are supposed to be business people, not students in elementary school. You don’t ask permission to break a rule. You request that a rule be changed, and then go ahead if/when the change is officially made.

  96. anon January 7, 2010 at 2:52 pm #

    This reminds me of when I first saw the employee issue blow up on Etsy. Some people were given a green light to hire an assistance but others, even ones you would think would be considered favorites were told no. No rhyme or reason to it. They didn’t want to become a factory, just be able to get a few hours of sleep a day.

    It sounds like Etsy still does not have things set up so people receive consistent information from admins. I would suggest that anytime you get an email/convo/twitter from admin on something you take a screenshot, print it out or both and keep it on file for later.

  97. gifteddesigns January 7, 2010 at 3:17 pm #

    Nobody, I wasn’t specifically talking about you so I don’t know why you think I was. I was talking about anyone who’s been nasty on this particular post…if you weren’t needlessly nasty, then you weren’t included in my comment.

    I have also been pounced on for asking a question/putting an idea forward and so I do know it happens…there are some people I want to strangle sometimes, but I wouldn’t say there are more there than here. I also didn’t let it discourage me from asking again.

    MadebyM…I’m sure there are as is evidenced by a few of the posts. My comment was for this thread in particular seeing as it IS quite filled with completely unnecessary backbiting of a seller who’s quite nice and who’s helped a lot of people. I don’t tend to judge on only one post and I’m a rather forgiving person and quite tolerant most times…;) This was obviously not one of those times…:)

    WindyR…please show me where I said ALL of the people on this blog are mean?

    At least we got a definitive answer. However, if Michelle said that she can keep it up because she was told she could do it, that’s Michelle’s fault and not hers. Most people, if told they can continue to do something, will. What she does is up to her at this point because MIchelle gave her the out.

  98. Nobody Understands My Pain Either January 7, 2010 at 3:31 pm #

    GiftedDesigns – I’m really not trying to pick a fight, but you did say “There may be nice people on this blog, but if there are, they haven’t appeared on this particular post.”

    That sentence does seem to include everyone who had posted on this particular issue. Which is why I took offense and perhaps where WindyR got the idea that you thought ALL people on this blog were mean.

  99. sputnik January 7, 2010 at 3:32 pm #

    @gifteddesigns here are your exact words.
    “There may be nice people on this blog, but if there are, they haven’t appeared on this particular post.”
    That statement infers that anyone who made a comment above yours is included in the statement. So you essentially said that anyone who commented on this blog post wasn’t a nice person. That may in fact, not be what you meant, however, it’s apparent that people took it that way.

    If Michelle gave her an out, which is open for debate, that doesn’t change the rules. Stella made it clear that proofreading and editing isn’t allowed on the site. If Lucinda keeps her listings up, out or not, she knows she is doing it against the TOU of the site.

  100. Can't sue for opinions or examples... January 7, 2010 at 3:46 pm #

    sputnik, I agree. Stella explained the rules clearly.

    BusinessLetters should take down those proofreading and editing listing voluntarily. If she doesn’t that speaks volumes about her character.

    Just because one admin says you can break the rules doesn’t mean you should, especially just because you have a “get out of jail free” card from an admin.

    Stella made the rules very clear. No editing or proof reading.

    This whole thing is just a clusterf**k.

  101. gifteddesigns January 7, 2010 at 3:53 pm #

    You are correct that it does imply that as I did not put in a few words that could have clarified and for that I apologize.

    I was only referring to those who were being unnecessarily harsh and I STILL think they were unnecessarily harsh and that they should rethink how they make themselves and Etsy look.

    The whole point of this blog seems to be to get resellers and non-handmade off Etsy (which is great of course) but when they express themselves with derogatory words when dealing with these shops, it doesn’t make them any better and it doesn’t improve on integrity or professionalism at all.

  102. gifteddesigns January 7, 2010 at 3:54 pm #

    Also, do give the girl a chance to actually get the memo.

  103. BK January 7, 2010 at 3:54 pm #

    sputnik Says:
    January 7, 2010 at 9:37 am
    With the way that Etsy admins apply their own personal view of what is and isn’t allowed Etsy has already started down the slippery slope. There are so many shops out there breaking rules with tags, reselling, drop shipping, copyright infringement and Etsy promotes them, ignores the flags and collects their fees. Long gone are the days of Etsy being a place to buy handmade. If I were new to Etsy today I think I might not bother shopping there. My first purchase was a pair of mittens, if you do a search now, they are hard to find in the sea of mistagged items. I think this new direction of turning their heads at the rule breakers and law breakers (copyright) for that matter is going to hurt legitimate handmade sellers, well it probably already has.
    I think I saw a post a few days back about Etsy’s apathy, it was spot on.

    …………………………….

    I totally agree sputnik. The right hand doesn’t know what the left hand is doing and they are way down the slippery slope already.

    The number of resellers, the mis-tagging, the ‘vintage’ (not always vintage) listed in hand-made categories and the feeling that flagging is no different than writing on a paper plane and throwing it in the ocean is beginning to disgust me. Etsy feels tarnished and disreputable at the moment.

    There are many shops that shouldn’t be there at all for a range of rule breaking and bad customer service.

    More and more members are resorting to calling out in the forum and risking the punishment – oh yes punishment is more likely for drawing attention to the things that are wrong with Etsy than breaking the Etsy TOU. It is often the only way to get any action against serious resellers etc. though.

    In fact I was so disgusted today I have put my shop in vacation mode for a while and am seriously thinking about whether to bother with it.

    Its not fair or honest to allow mass produced items whether new or vintage or just tat that is a few years old, to be sold in categories headed “Handmade” if buyers believe that to be accurate.

    My current feeling is that it is dishonest to run a site where items are sold under categories headed “handmade” unless they are and if Etsy cannot keep the site straight they should be honest and open it up for the sale of anything and quit the pretence.

    If I don’t have to check my shop for a while I might be able to avoid seeing what is going on and not get so angry.

  104. sputnik January 7, 2010 at 4:19 pm #

    BK I certainly feel your pain. This is the very reason that Etsy needs to get their head out of their asses. If they don’t want to be the next Ebay, selling any sort of crap under the sun, they have to start enforcing their rules. Shops that obey get undercut or annoyed to the point of leaving. So the good goes and more of the crap settles in too roost. It’s very sad.

  105. BK January 7, 2010 at 4:24 pm #

    At least ebay is up front about what it is and everyone knows what to expect there – its the pretence and sham that I can’t stand.

    Being told constantly “if you see something that breaks the rules flag it”

    I wouldn’t mind if they added “so we can ignore it” LOL

  106. sputnik January 7, 2010 at 4:30 pm #

    I wouldn’t mind if they added “so we can ignore it” LOL
    —–
    Funny and very sad at the same time.

  107. hmmm2 January 7, 2010 at 7:03 pm #

    I guess we will wait and see if the listings that Stella said aren’t allowed will be removed.

    As for those questioning how some on here can question favoritism, let me ask you this. The seller herself posted in the forum that an administrator asked her what took her so long to open her shop. How many of you have had this sort of personal communicaion with an administrator? How many of you have had an administrator ask you anything at all about your shop or come across like they were cheerleading for you?

    When paying for professional writing, it is expected that the grammar and punctuation be accurate. That’s what you are paying for. Why else would you hire a proofreader or editor?

    A professional writer is generally someone who makes his or her living writing or who is a published author. I personally don’t know of any professional writer who wouldn’t list his or her education and writing credentials.

    I am glad Stella cleared this up but I will be curious to see if this shop can continue to sell the violating products or if will just be Etsy same ole, same ole.

  108. Can't sue for opinions or examples... January 7, 2010 at 7:40 pm #

    She changed some of the listing, but a couple still don’t follow the rules.

    I’m also more and more disturbed by her use of the “get stuffed” comment in her announcement.

    Why would you hire someone to insult your customers so they don’t know it right off? That doesn’t even make sense and is very unprofessional. If the customer comes back after being told to “get stuffed” and expects further communication from you are you going to hire her again? Will she just throw gas on the fire? Will you have to pay for follow up? Why risk pissing off a customer, especially by not using your own words?

    I also agree that anyone using the term “professional writer” should post their credentials. I don’t find her forum posting at all remarkable, I’ve not been impressed by her forum posting or the “free” help she has offered and as others have pointed out I find her grammar, phrasing and punctuation mistakes telling. Professional writers have a resume.

  109. Can't sue for opinions or examples... January 7, 2010 at 8:07 pm #

    http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6397648&page=1

    And now it’s an adventure in new ways to pimp your shop!!!!!

    Unless admin spanked her for her original tantrum post and told her to post again.

  110. CAT January 7, 2010 at 8:19 pm #

    She can leave the custom rewrite at the hourly rate up? How wrong is that?

    I hear the violin…

  111. a passsing thought January 7, 2010 at 8:29 pm #

    i guess stella’s answer means that resume writing is ok. i have a feeling resume writing services will be popping up all over etsy now.

  112. forum rubbernecker January 7, 2010 at 8:30 pm #

    I don’t think the store owner in the OP can sue this blog since this is about Etsy and their favoritism and spotty enforcement of the rules. Her shop is just used as an example. As for the comments, well, they are opinions which are allowed. There is not slander or libel in the OP or the comments.
    ________

    You’re nucking futs. DBL is not in any way shape or form an Etsy favorite. Not. At. All.

    (had to chime in, I’m only up to post 38)

  113. MrsRB January 7, 2010 at 8:37 pm #

    She’s apologized now in the forums. She was wrong. Everyone is falling over themselves now hugging her.

    Gag me.

  114. Sigh January 7, 2010 at 8:56 pm #

    MrsRB Says:
    January 7, 2010 at 8:37 pm

    She’s apologized now in the forums. She was wrong. Everyone is falling over themselves now hugging her.

    Gag me.
    ———–

    What a miserable existence you must live.

  115. anon January 7, 2010 at 9:51 pm #

    I’m not sure Etsy would appreciate her advertising the banned services in her shop announcement:
    “Any requests for proofreading (of any subject) need to be directed to cboard4488 [!at] aol.com as Etsy doesn’t allow that to be sold on this venue. I am happy to take them OFF Etsy so email me with PROOFING in the title. My rates are reduced 3.5% for this and I’ll pass that savings along to you. ”

    And I thought revising wasn’t allowed!
    http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=37685130

  116. MrsRB January 7, 2010 at 9:58 pm #

    It;s just all so ridiculous. She was called out for posting items that should not have been for sale. Then she goes on the forums and says Admin told me I could, so bleh. Why didn’t she privately convo admin and make positively SURE before going to the forums?? NOW…it’s poor girl, everyones so mean.

    SHE BROUGHT IN ALL ON HERSELF!!

  117. just spoofin' January 7, 2010 at 9:58 pm #

    It seems like an honest mistake was made and people just couldn’t wait to pounce. I can understand resellers being called out, but this? Really?

  118. hideous January 7, 2010 at 10:02 pm #

    MrsRB Says:
    January 7, 2010 at 8:37 pm

    She’s apologized now in the forums. She was wrong. Everyone is falling over themselves now hugging her.

    Gag me.
    ————
    seriously? now that’s a hateful and ugly little person right there. did it shrivel up and fall out years ago, or is the heartless beech thing new for you?

    the joy of anonymous posting on the internet.

  119. suspicious crab January 7, 2010 at 10:07 pm #

    From the original post here:

    “doesn’t even know where to use comma’s”

  120. Happenstance January 7, 2010 at 10:12 pm #

    116. anon Says:
    January 7, 2010 at 9:51 pm
    I’m not sure Etsy would appreciate her advertising the banned services in her shop announcement:
    “Any requests for proofreading (of any subject) need to be directed to cboard4488 [!at] aol.com as Etsy doesn’t allow that to be sold on this venue. I am happy to take them OFF Etsy so email me with PROOFING in the title. My rates are reduced 3.5% for this and I’ll pass that savings along to you. ”

    And I thought revising wasn’t allowed!
    http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=37685130
    _____________________________________________________________
    Someone who knows her might want to contact her and tell her to rethink these so there isn’t more trouble!

  121. janicejoplin2 January 7, 2010 at 10:19 pm #

    I will do that. Thank you Happenstance.

  122. janicejoplin2 January 7, 2010 at 10:20 pm #

    MrsRB…..WJW

  123. a passsing thought January 7, 2010 at 10:22 pm #

    i sent a convo to administration to make them aware of it. i figure it’s best to let them deal with it.

  124. CAT January 7, 2010 at 10:36 pm #

    Hey Michelle, you don’t get it.

    HeyMichelle says:
    “Well, I think it is truly sad that you were called out about this. Sellers generally list items in good faith that they believe are ok to list on Etsy, and it is poor form for people to call others out like that rather than just reporting it to Etsy so that we may look at it and contact the seller privately if necessary. I’m sorry to hear about all of these troubles as a result of this. I’m going to close this thread though since it is about a private matter.”

    ——-

    The problem is that this shop HAS been reported by a LOT of people since it opened and NOTHING was ever done.

    DUH, what part of this aren’t you getting?

  125. ML January 7, 2010 at 10:52 pm #

    MrsRB Says:
    January 7, 2010 at 8:37 pm

    She’s apologized now in the forums. She was wrong. Everyone is falling over themselves now hugging her.

    Gag me.
    ————
    seriously? now that’s a hateful and ugly little person right there. did it shrivel up and fall out years ago, or is the heartless beech thing new for you?

    the joy of anonymous posting on the internet
    _______
    i ❤ u

  126. Nuff said January 7, 2010 at 11:23 pm #

    The know-it-all queen has finally brought herself down by her own hands, folks. She is a constant presence in the forums, often making demands of admin and flaming other sellers for breaking the rules (can you say “hypocrisy”?), all in thinly veiled attempts to call attention to herself and her two shops. She’s a phoney. And now she’s posted an apology in the forums (phoney), in yet another attempt to draw attention (and sympathy) to herself, and her loyal, mindless minions are responding with oodles of hugs and kisses. What drama.

  127. janicejoplin2 January 7, 2010 at 11:52 pm #

    Nuff said,

    To offer support to someone who has supported you is not being a mindless minion. Loyal yes. It doesn’t mean that I am blinded by the facts. I just don’t believe in kickin someone when they are down.

  128. Nuff said January 8, 2010 at 12:07 am #

    janicejoplin2,

    She often kicks people when they’re down. In fact, she often launches the first kick. If she doesn’t agree with what you have to say, she reams you and her minions follow suit. I see it happen time and time again in the forums. I have no sympathy for her.

  129. Crazy Cat Lady January 8, 2010 at 12:11 am #

    Nuff said, I agree. I also think it’s hypocritical to get on someone for posting anonymously when the person herself is posting anonymously.

  130. Marg January 8, 2010 at 12:23 am #

    There are always people you will disagree with, but there is no reason to behave the way some people have here.

    Lucinda is not an Etsy fave. She’s been on one FP & one GG (I think – not sure on the last one). She’s been in plenty of closed threads. One admin told her yes even though the correct interp. would seem to be no. I’ve had admin evade answering direct questions before, & only recently got the answer to one of my repeated questions from a closed thread (so I can’t even link to it!)

    Lucinda’s mistake was assuming that one admin could give her an answer, which many of us know is not true. Scarcely enough to call her names for.

    Calling out on Etsy is wrong, & she supports those rules. Calling out here is fine, but get the facts straight, please. & reserve your vitriol for those who never bother to check with admin in the first place. There are bigger fish to fry.

  131. wacky January 8, 2010 at 12:27 am #

    Enough.

  132. Nuff said January 8, 2010 at 12:36 am #

    Marg says:

    “Lucinda’s mistake was assuming that one admin could give her an answer, which many of us know is not true. Scarcely enough to call her names for.”

    No, her mistake was in wanting to be an attention hog and drama queen by bringing it to the forums rather than by keeping it between herself and admin. She opened up this can of worms and brought this on herself. As I said before, I have no sympathy for her as I’ve seen her flame many a person in the forums when they disagree with her.

  133. pussdaddy January 8, 2010 at 12:45 am #

    Good Lord.

  134. pussdaddy January 8, 2010 at 12:58 am #

    Maybe some one can explain to me how having a shop full of manuals on how to bitch slap pesky pain in the ass buyers so that they don’t know what hit them until way later does for selling your other shop full of legitimate items, because as a buyer my ass would pass on both.

  135. pussdaddy January 8, 2010 at 1:00 am #

    What I meant to say is not only would I not buy a manual, but after seeing it was about me-yes me as I am a buyer-then I would just pass on the handcrafted stuff as well if the seller led me to believe that she felt this way about buyers.

  136. pussdaddy January 8, 2010 at 1:02 am #

    I have in fact made a couple of blog posts about DesignedByLucinda and one of them specifically addressed how she was talking about buyers on the forum. It turned out it was a buyer in real life or so she said, and because she threw such a fit I redacted it but told her I would keep it in draft in case I decided I needed it. Also, on this thread she is automatically signing up people for her newletter which no one could get thru her fucking head is against the rules, or she knew it and didn’t care. Either way, bashing people who may purchase from her by whatever entity they use and not having to follow rules seems to be her theme. Also on this thread she is asking for someone to “give her a graceful decline”. How can one go from needing someone to put words in their mouth for then to a person who is capable of doing it for other people to the extent that they should pay for it in such a short time is beyond me. I put this seller on my DNBF list from the minute she first opened her mouth on the forum. Evidently she has had this deep-seated fear and paranoia about buyers for some time now, IMHO,.
    http://pussdaddyblogs.blogspot.com/2009/03/way-to-go-designedbylucinda.html

  137. pussdaddy January 8, 2010 at 1:08 am #

    Is it true that she didn’t disclose her shops in each other?

  138. pussdaddy January 8, 2010 at 1:18 am #

    Never mind about my last question as I found the answer. Also, gifteddesigns, this seller has a history of making a big drama out of the least little thing you say about her. She had such a fit about my mild blog posts about her that I actually redacted the damn things rather than read her fucking emails all damn day. It also comes to no surprise to me that she has made a great big drama out of this blog post here, as if she is exempt from being discussed and treated the way everyone else is discussed abndtreated. You know the way you, and I, and the next guy gets treated by people like you, and me, and the next guy? I know for a fact that her being perceived as condescending should come as no fricking surprise to her.

  139. pussdaddy January 8, 2010 at 1:37 am #

    just spoofin’ Says:
    January 7, 2010 at 9:58 pm
    It seems like an honest mistake was made and people just couldn’t wait to pounce. I can understand resellers being called out, but this? Really?
    ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

    DING DING DING! I think we finally have a winner folks! I am sure this is a rhetorical question and has nothing to do with how this seller is perceived by the general Etsy populace as being condescending and surely this isn’t the reason so many are waiting to pounce.

  140. kitten January 8, 2010 at 3:38 am #

    pussdaddy Says:

    Maybe some one can explain to me how having a shop full of manuals on how to bitch slap pesky pain in the ass buyers so that they don’t know what hit them until way later does for selling your other shop full of legitimate items, because as a buyer my ass would pass on both.
    _______________________________________

    She’s clueless PD. What seller in their right mind would advertise that?

    My first recollection of this seller is when she posted in a forum thread that if she saw her neighbor abuse their child, she would never report them. Instead she would talk to them about it. Yuck, she turns my stomach.

  141. gifteddesigns January 8, 2010 at 5:23 am #

    Puss, I personally disagree that she is condescending, I have never felt that about her at all. I also still don’t see any reason at all to treat her like a piece of crap the way people have. Perhaps I am simply not made that way. I would never attempt to bring someone down just because I disagree with them or the way they do things. I might tell them I disagree and I most certainly will argue, but I would never go so low as to start nit-picking over things such as ‘can also’ vs. ‘also can’.

    I respect the fact that you posted under your name, unlike so many others here. At least you have the guts to stand behind your word. I’m sure some have, but if they have, none are recognizable to me.

    Have a nice day everyone…I will be happy to come back and help try and get the resellers off Etsy.

  142. CAT January 8, 2010 at 5:44 am #

    Thank you Pussdaddy for bringing your blog post and her forum threads to light. Her old forum threads speak volumes.

    Asking for help with how to deal with one of her buyers really leaves me questioning whether she is a professional writer.

    Pussdaddy, you are a true gem.

  143. Bedazzled VONdom January 8, 2010 at 7:38 am #

    “Calling out here is fine”

    Oh really? That’s not what she said.

    “I’ll sue if the blog post doesn’t drop.”

    Threatening to sue someone because your feeeeeeewings are hurt is nitwit behavior.

  144. Denise January 8, 2010 at 8:17 am #

    This is an issue that has been festering for a long time. I belong to a private blog and a lot of the posters had been commenting since she opened that they had been flagging her. Flagging since she opened. If it wasn’t allowed, as Stella said, then why were all the reports ignored since the time she opened????? How can Michelle come into th forums with some stupid defense of her and then say to flag. This is proof positive that flagging doesn’t work.

  145. Crazy Cat Lady January 8, 2010 at 8:45 am #

    Puss, thanks for bringing those older posts to light. She used to post like that all the time in the forums, always complaining about buyers wanting “something for nothing” basically, or friends wanting her to fix store bought jewelry and should she charge her friends “by the hour” or “by the material” (like a few crimp beads are that expensive). You know, I’m waiting in the mail for an old college friend that I haven’t seen in 15 years to send me a store bought necklace where the clasp broke and I’ll put a new clasp on. Am I going to charge her for the 15m of time or the $2 for the clasp? NO. First, I don’t nickle and dime my friends, and second, she bought $30 worth of Christmas presents in my shop. To ask her for $3 to fix it (even though she offered) would be embarrassingly cheap. But Lucinda would be on the forums bitching.

    I guess the real issue is – do you want to pay for business advice from someone who does business that way? Who sees the shopkeeper and the customer as adversaries, not partners? She always seems to be coming from the position of “they’re trying to get something from me” rather than, “what can I do to make this person happy”.

    And kitten, I remember that too. She doesn’t trust the authorities, she thinks she can fix the problem by just talking to people.

  146. pussdaddy January 8, 2010 at 8:49 am #

    gifteddesigns thank you for keeping it civil. However, who appointed her a proofreader in the first place? She did. If you say you are a proofreader and an excellent writer then you better be able to back it up. After all, isn’t that what the buyer is paying for-her expertise? Maybe she half assed does everything and isn’t a good jewelry maker either. That is the impression I would get. And then what happens when someone buys something from her and it is misspelled or not done correctly? Do they get “the book” thrown at them so to speak, and labeled a pain in the ass buyer because they want what the heck they paid for and want it made correctly? If a person has this much animosity toward buyers then maybe they shouldn’t be sellers. That is the impression I am left with. Because sellers can be as bad as buyers, and you can bet if I made a manual titled “How To Deal With Problem Sellers” and mentioned habing the ability to fuck with them so bad that they don’t know what hit them till later, how fucking well do you think me selling something like that on Etsy would be taken by the sellers there? They’d be ready to lynch me.

  147. Happenstance January 8, 2010 at 8:49 am #

    She should really disclose both her shops in her profile, too.

  148. pussdaddy January 8, 2010 at 8:50 am #

    Well ok, many already want to lynch me. If I tried selling something like that they would probably want to set me on fire first as well.

  149. Happenstance January 8, 2010 at 8:52 am #

    Nevermind, good, she does. I based that comment off of one made earlier.
    I hope all this dies down soon.
    The negativity isn’t healthy for anyone.
    (*digs a hole)

  150. Whattha? January 8, 2010 at 9:02 am #

    Sigh Says:
    January 7, 2010 at 8:56 pm
    MrsRB Says:
    January 7, 2010 at 8:37 pm

    She’s apologized now in the forums. She was wrong. Everyone is falling over themselves now hugging her.

    Gag me.
    ———–

    What a miserable existence you must live.
    _________________________________________________

    I’m sorry, I have to agree with Sigh. There is a definate clique on the forums. If you cross one of the “cool kids” if you will, there will be hell to pay. If you say something they don’t like: watch out! When I see people ganging up on one person, they look like a bunch of bullies.
    I agree wigth Sigh, it makes me want to gag

  151. pussdaddy January 8, 2010 at 9:03 am #

    Is sure as hell isn’t healty for buyers that’s for sure.

  152. pussdaddy January 8, 2010 at 9:14 am #

    Maybe I should write a manual on all the sneaky underhanded crap sellers on Etsy can do and what to do if it happens. Like canceling sales behind buyer’s backs so the buyer can leave them deserved bad feedback, sellers up and disappearing after having taken your money, what a death trap alchemy has become for buyers because sellers go in there offering to make stuff then string buyers along until it is too late to file a paypal dispute then they simply close shop taking the buyer’s money with them, things like that, how many see buyers as a fricking inconvenience rather than the people who pay their salary, things like that. Do you think Etsy would allow this? Hell to the fucking no, but you can bash buyers all damn day on Etsy. Bash what they say and do to sellers on Etsy, the demands they make on sellers on Etsy, and when you run out of Etsy stories then you come up with some good craft fair and craft show stories to bash buyers about like the stupid ridiculous things buyers say and do at shows, how they have the audacity to ask how something they might want to buy was made, how my stuff is so high falutin’ that I can’t believe this silly assed person asked this question about it and how damn insulted I am. I am sure I could write stuff all damn day. Because I already do and you see how some people enjoy it (or not) don’t ya?

  153. Denise January 8, 2010 at 9:14 am #

    Does Etsy even realize what she’s selling???? How to manuals and letters for cranky buyers. That’s how I interpret them to be and this really sends a bad message to buyers. It’s like saying a buyer has no right to complain about bad service or non delivery because this shop owner will write a letter saying to get stuffed. She claims someone from Etsy administration asked her why it was taking so long to open this type of shop???? That doesn’t make sense. Why would Etsy condone a business that is telling buyers to stuff it???? If Etsy wants to encourage shops that promote poor customer service, then something is really wrong with this picture.

  154. uh-huh January 8, 2010 at 9:16 am #

    Kinda odd that she needed advice on wording in March but now she’s selling written advice. That’s a short span of time to become a confident professional.

  155. pussdaddy January 8, 2010 at 9:19 am #

    *Makes note to self to include chapter in manual about how Etsy admin aids and abets bad sellers to cancel sales behind sellers back leaving them no way to at least leave feedback for a bad transaction and making the whole transaction disappear as if it never happened which goes against Etsy’s own rules of the site”*

  156. Whattha? January 8, 2010 at 9:20 am #

    If you are going to charge $20.00 per hour and if you are a professional writer, I want to see your credentials and examples of your writing, or where you are published.

  157. Bedazzled VONdom January 8, 2010 at 9:22 am #

    “And then what happens when someone buys something from her and it is misspelled or not done correctly?”

    “Negative: VERY disappointed!! Item not as described!!! Was promised subtlety but buyer knew she was being insulted and patronized right off the bat!!!!”

  158. Denise January 8, 2010 at 9:23 am #

    Maybe someone should buy one of her writing services and pay. Then ask for her credientials and published works. If she can’t produce anything that would qualify to use the tag “professional writer”, wouldn’t that be false advertising????

  159. Denise January 8, 2010 at 9:24 am #

    Pussdaddy, I see in some of those older threads that you so graciously shared, that some of those jumping on Lucinda and scolding her are some of the same now defending her. Interesting!!!!

  160. pussdaddy January 8, 2010 at 9:24 am #

    ” I can also nicely tell an unreasonable person to get stuffed and they won’t know they were told that until hours later when it belatedly sinks in.”

    What is the definition of unreasonable? Because I see a broad spectrum of what is deemed unreasonable on a buyer’s part being discussed on Etsy everyday. Some think it unreasonable for a buyer to ask too many questions, some think it unreasonable that the buyer expects to get what they ordered and want their money back when they don’t receive it knowing damn good and well that if they ordered something from Sears and didn’t get it they would want Sears to resend it, some think it unreasonable for a buyer to simply ask how was that made which I do often because I like to know about stuff I am buying. Should sellers have a snarky letter to fire off to buyers who may do some of this stuff just because the persnickity seller sees them as a problem?

  161. Denise January 8, 2010 at 9:26 am #

    Bedazzled VONdom Says:
    January 8, 2010 at 9:22 am
    “And then what happens when someone buys something from her and it is misspelled or not done correctly?”

    They have to go buy the stuff it letter and have her send it to herself.

  162. pussdaddy January 8, 2010 at 9:28 am #

    I admit I have had my mind changed about a person or two as well though Denise as time has gone by, but I have to question what caused this big turn around in the people who used to bash her who now rush to defend her. Maybe she finally convinced them they are helpless without her input. Like if you can’t dazzle them with brilliance then baffle them with bullshit.

  163. Denise January 8, 2010 at 9:35 am #

    I might have bought the done in innocence story until those older threads were posted. It shows she’s violated the TOS before. Now look at her shop announcement. Can you really have something like this in it????

    “Any requests for proofreading (of any subject) need to be directed to cboard4488 [!at] aol.com as Etsy doesn’t allow that to be sold on this venue. I am happy to take them OFF Etsy so email me with PROOFING in the title. My rates are reduced 3.5% for this and I’ll pass that savings along to you. ”

  164. Whattha? January 8, 2010 at 9:50 am #

    pussdaddy Says:
    January 8, 2010 at 9:03 am
    Is sure as hell isn’t healty for buyers that’s for sure.
    _______________________________________________________

    Very true PD. I wouldn’t want to buy from them

  165. pussdaddy January 8, 2010 at 10:12 am #

    “Any requests for proofreading (of any subject) need to be directed to cboard4488 [!at] aol.com as Etsy doesn’t allow that to be sold on this venue. I am happy to take them OFF Etsy so email me with PROOFING in the title. My rates are reduced 3.5% for this and I’ll pass that savings along to you. ”

    ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

    Etsy doesn’t allow you to sell pussy on Etsy either but maybe you can hook up a link in your shop where perspective customers can go take a look at your ho’s. At a reduced rate of 3.5% of course.

  166. casualobserver January 8, 2010 at 10:15 am #

    Lucinda is offended because she was called out for violation of the TOS. Here are some of her forum posts.

    Lucinda scolds jewelry bead supply sellers
    http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6386415

    DUH Moment – more helpful unsolicited advise
    http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6377325

    Hate mail
    http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6373707

    Criticizing beaders
    http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5621946

    Complaining about resellers
    http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6355095

    When you mess up (a sale)
    http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6338434

    What if one gets warned (about forum)
    http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6329485

    Another bitch
    http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6298864

    It goes on and on. She has almost 2,000 posts. Contradictory in some. Hypocrite in others.

  167. BK January 8, 2010 at 10:38 am #

    Denise Says:

    ……. Why would Etsy condone a business that is telling buyers to stuff it???? If Etsy wants to encourage shops that promote poor customer service, then something is really wrong with this picture.

    …………………………………………………………..

    Thinking this over maybe they do.

    Shops that delete transactions before a customer can leave neg FB (getting their fees back as a bonus)

    Shops that have been witnessed shilling their feedback

    Shops that have used sock puppet IDs to leave malicious comments and threats in feedback via malicious purchasing

    Shops that constantly get bad feedback, abnormal numbers of packages missing in the mail, shoddy goods etc.

    Shops that are so bad they open up new shops to try to leave their history behind

    All these things are seen to happen and the shops do not appear to be closed down permanently.

  168. ohmeohmy January 8, 2010 at 12:06 pm #

    I think it’s more important to flag and report mass resellers. What lucinda’s shop is is small potatoes.

    I would rather get rid of the huge sweatshop sellers.

  169. casualobserver January 8, 2010 at 12:10 pm #

    For the hell of it, I ran her shop announcemnt through a free editing program I found online. Stark differences, but I must say the free program did a decent job and better yet, it’s FREE.

    Sometimes we need help figuring out how to answer our buyers when they ask ticklish questions before or after a sale. Sometimes, sellers leave buyers in the lurch. Sometimes, what the other says is enough to make us want to start typing furiously on our keyboards with a scathing reply – – but that doesn’t help. That’s where I step in to offer you a personalized custom reply letter for your specific situation or you can buy my e-book with over 110 template answers that cover most contingencies (the questions were collected from Etsy sellers and buyers through threads and convos).

    I am a professional writer who can usually calm troubled waters with diplomacy and tact. I can also nicely tell an unreasonable person to get stuffed and they won’t know they were told that until hours later when it belatedly sinks in. Best yet, I can keep my cool especially when we are talking about *your* problem because I can focus on just How To Repair the problem without adding any emotions as additional baggage. It hurts to have a buyer get critical or ask pointed questions (our items are our babies 🙂 ) or when that new widget breaks after just one use. I can be your balm to their wound.

    Need help? You’ve come to the right place. Let me figure out how to answer that thorny question for you. All questions include a follow up. Questions to sellers are less time consuming in composing than ones FOR sellers looking to save their reputations, so they cost more 🙂

    Disclosure: I sell on Etsy as DesignedByLucinda, and my prices for my letters/book will go up after I get some traction here. Thank you to all who helped me formulate my templates!

    (Low on cash? This shop is open to trades so let’s barter our goods via convo)

    If you don’t see what you need already listed, contact me and I will be happy to work with you. Just use the Conversation bar at the top of the page to access Etsy’s internal email or click ‘contact this seller’ on the right. Thanks!

    ————–
    We sometimes need help to determine how to answer our buyers when they ask ticklish questions, before or after, a sale.
    Sellers sometimes will leave buyers in the lurch. What the other says sometimes is enough to make us want to start typing furiously on our keyboards with a scathing reply, but that doesn’t help. That’s where I step in, to offer you a personalized custom reply letter for your specific situation, or you can buy my e-book, with over 110 template answers that cover most contingencies (the questions were collected from Etsy sellers and buyers through threads and convos).

    I am a professional writer who can usually calm troubled waters with diplomacy and tact. Also, I can nicely tell an unreasonable person to get stuffed, and they won’t know they were told that until hours later, when it belatedly sinks in. Best yet, I can keep my cool especially when we are talking about “your” problem, because I can focus on just “How To Repair” the problem, without adding any emotions as additional baggage. It hurts to have a buyer get critical or ask pointed questions (our items are our babies), or when that new widget breaks after just one use. I can be your balm to their wound.

    Need help? You’ve come to the right place. Let me figure out how to answer that thorny question for you. All questions include a follow up. Questions to sellers are less time consuming in composing than those FOR sellers looking to save their reputations, so they cost more.

    Disclosure: I sell on Etsy as DesignedByLucinda, and my prices for my letters/book will go up after I get some traction here. Thank you to all who helped me formulate my templates!

    (Low on cash? This shop is open to trades ,so let’s barter our goods via convo).

    If you don’t see what you need already listed, contact me, and I will be happy to work with you. Just use the Conversation bar at the top of the page to access Etsy’s internal email or click ‘contact this seller’ on the right. Thanks!

  170. jenn January 8, 2010 at 1:33 pm #

    Amen, PussDaddy, about the buyer-bashing that is all over etsy’s forums.
    It makes me truly think twice about a seller if they so gleefully bash ‘stupid’ buyers publicly.
    Bad news.

  171. pussdaddy January 8, 2010 at 1:44 pm #

    I am not bragging jenn, but I probably spent easily 10 grand on Etsy myself and all I got was a rash of shit from a bunch of Etsy bitches about how I must hoard, or am mentally ill, or a reseller, and shit like that. Of course I didn’t buy anything from any of these bitches so maybe that was the problem. However all of this I did not find conducive to making me open my wallet anymore. And then I got a rash of shit because I could answer seller questions, be it Etsy, paypal or whatever, on the forum, and often had to correct erroneous info sellers posted. I was damned if I do and damned if I don’t. One guy even told me once that he shouldn’t have to replace a lost package because buyers have money to waste. All in all I can’t say it was a pleasant experience

  172. Voice January 8, 2010 at 1:48 pm #

    Good God, you must be kidding — the result you got from the free editing program is horrible! It’s about as good as the free translations you get from Babel Fish.

  173. pussdaddy January 8, 2010 at 1:55 pm #

    I mean for real, none of you are capable of writing responses such as these? I know I can do it and I am just a PITA buyer.

    http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6262684&page=1

  174. NatureVisions January 8, 2010 at 2:19 pm #

    Hi, I’m the one that started the second thread yesterday after the first. I knew it was a risk, and I didn’t really believe it would be answered. However, I knew everyone was still uncertain as to whether or not proofreading was allowed. I was very pleased and surprised when Stella chimed in and gave a definitive answer!

    My only intent was to get a clear answer. I’m not in any forum cliques that I’m aware of – I’m never part of the popular crowd, lol! Although I can be outspoken at times, I don’t wish to offend anyone through my posts. While I realize we all have differing opinions, I believe that hiding under the cover of anonymity to insult someone and call them names you wouldn’t dare say in person is just plain wrong.

    I guess I’m naive, because I just don’t get that mentality. Yes, the business was offering a questionable service, so it needed to be checked out. However, the seller had been told that it was okay by someone at Etsy, so didn’t know – that made it unclear to the rest of us if the service was allowed or not. Whether you like the owner of the shop or not is irrelevant, and is insulting to the validity of this blog. To be clear, I don’t know Lucinda from anywhere but the forums. I don’t claim to have personal knowledge of her character. I would feel the same about anyone being unjustly attacked/called ugly names – it’s wrong and unprofessional. The old “if you can’t say anything nice rule”, still has its place…

    Erica – who knows I may not be popular for writing this, but is using my real name

    P.S. What’s the best way to send links about an actual reseller on Etsy to this blog? I just noticed a shop I reported is up and running again, with their “handmade” items that are readily available on several sites.

    P.P.S. Pussdaddy, sorry you were so ill-treated on Etsy:-( Post 171 is disappointing to read.

  175. pussdaddy January 8, 2010 at 2:54 pm #

    Maybe a manual on how to be a great seller and provide good customer service to your buyers would have impressed me more. Considering there seems to be more sellers than buyers on Etsy and the buyers that Etsy does have aren’t even really wanted on their precious forum by most of the sellers.

  176. Friendly reminder... January 8, 2010 at 3:44 pm #

    …Just in case some of you have lost the plot…

    DBL/BusinessLetters herself went to the Etsy forums to broadcast her troubles with this blog.

    She could have kept her trap shut and dealt with this blog privately, but she didn’t. She brought the bright light onto her situation in the Etsy forums, presumably to gather her posse to circle the wagons and cheerlead her publicly. Her demands for whether she was “etsy legal” sure did backfire, now didn’t they.

    She did this all by herself.

    As was finally determined, no, she was not “etsy legal” and therefore the scrutiny she received here was warranted. Multiple flags by multiple people didn’t get her violations removed. Her forum post did though.

    Sorry, no sympathy. She was wrong in the first place by listing things that violate the TOU and wrong in her forum tantrum follow up. Add a dash of “I’ll sue you” and you have a self-made trainwreck.

  177. Friendly reminder... January 8, 2010 at 3:47 pm #

    And I don’t care that some “mystery” admin told her it was OK. And I don’t care that HeyMichelle thinks it’s OK for “some” sellers to violate the rules because she says so.

    The TOU are very clear on the matter as Stella kindly pointed out.

  178. pussdaddy January 8, 2010 at 3:52 pm #

    The way I see it is that this here Callin’ Out Blog is for people who need Callin’ Out, regardless of how many fans they have. Everyone seems to love Callin’ Out until it hits close to home.

    And thanks naturevision. I wanted to clarify though that the guy who said that about buyers having money to waste I did not actually buy anything from. I was told this in a thread about lost packages. I was so taken aback I repeated his statement back to him for reiteration and he said yes buyers have more money to waste then sellers do.

  179. pussdaddy January 8, 2010 at 3:55 pm #

    And at least people running to the forums about being featured here does a world of good for views, I know that for a fact from my own blog, so let her yap away in the forum.

  180. WindyR January 8, 2010 at 4:05 pm #

    I also agree with NatureVision – and most poster here were more interested in getting a clear answer from etsy than bashing a specific shop owner. NatureVision summed up the situation quite nicely, and it was great to get a definitive answer from Stella. Sure, some might not agree with the answer, but at least it’s an answer and that should be the end of the issue.

  181. co January 8, 2010 at 4:53 pm #

    DesignedByLucinda says:
    “Could you make me a one of a kind, no one else in the World has it piece? Either a bracelet but I’d really prefer a necklace. I am open to most colors but I really like greens and jades and pinks and such. I want elegant and stately, delicate, like you do… My price range is $20-$25 so what can you do for me?”

    I am unsure how to reply because I can’t whip out a necklace with stones and silver for $20-$25… I want to say THANK YOU for thinking of me – – but I also want to point out I don’t have a factory of underaged kids making these for a bowl of rice each day of work…

    Teach me a GRACEFUL decline? Please?
    Posted at 1:19 am, March 18 2009 EST – Report this post

    Okey Dokey. So we are all supposed to believe Lucinda is a professional writer now when less than a year ago she was looking for a graceful decline. Does she have any credentials beyond writing forum posts?

  182. sputnik January 8, 2010 at 5:00 pm #

    I suppose it would be over if this wasn’t still in her shop.
    http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=37685130
    Rewrite is another word for edit. She is still offering something she knows is clearly a violation of the TOU.
    She has removed the bit about offering transactions off etsy for a 3.5% discount. Of course you can still contact her and she will still make the offer, she just removed the text about it from her announcement.
    How you handle scrutiny, public or otherwise does speak clearly to who you are as a person. Lucinda chose to make threats (lawsuit) publicly make a spectacle of herself in the forums and continue the rule breaking behavior (still offering editing).
    Somehow I don’t think this all worked out the way she had intended.

    Now speaking to Etsy and the forums in general. It seems that calling out publicly on those forums is getting to be quite in vogue. Seems we may be heading to critical mass with the lack of any sort of action on the part of Etsy.
    They continue to let resellers linger long enough to make sales
    They let scammers accounts stay active
    They let sellers bash buyers publicly
    They ignore the spamming of tags
    They ignore valid flags
    They allow sellers with sockpuppets to go along business as usual
    They let people openly list things against the TOU (how hard is it to run a search on drop shipping? or anything else for that matter)
    the list goes on and on and on and on and on

    This inaction on Admins part is causing people to get more and more agitated and so they lash out by calling out on the forums. The sad part is instead of doing something about that list above, they silence the agitated party.

  183. sputnik January 8, 2010 at 5:02 pm #

    But co, she wanted a graceful decline, not a snarky reply.

  184. Wha? January 8, 2010 at 5:21 pm #

    Ok, finally read through everything. The thing that upsets me the most is, that the admin that closed the final thread seemed “so understanding” or more like “poor you poor you” umm.. she broke the rules.. I dont feel sorry for you at all. READ THE RULES

    Ignorance of the law is not a defense remember? If a fireman said it was ok to burn down buildings but the law says no, would you still do it??

    I told myself 20 years ago that when I got caught being dumb I would try to get people to feel sorry for me by fake crying.

  185. notvintage January 8, 2010 at 5:27 pm #

    Oh, dear, I tried to read that thread, but Dear Abby is more interesting.
    There have been and still are people selling pamphlets and how-to’s, like guidebooks. I’m not a fan of them, but if you were actually getting something TANGIBLE for the price it would make Etsy sense to me. But charging by the hour for personal advice, like selling palm-readings or fortunes or legal advice? No. No. No.

    It’s selling a service. Not okay; in fact, it’s comes across as hyper-opportunistic. Those listings should not be here; it’s been clarified. So why does she get to continue to not only sell these services, but advertise in this sickening spammy sort of way?
    I know nothing about the seller, that’s arbitrary, but what she is selling is not okay for anybody on Etsy.

    Another of the myriad examples of how easy it is to do whatever you want here EXCEPT tell the Staff Who Are Paid to do their jobs to do their jobs.

  186. co January 8, 2010 at 5:40 pm #

    sputnik Says:
    January 8, 2010 at 5:02 pm
    But co, she wanted a graceful decline, not a snarky reply.

    My bad! Guess I don’t know what to say so I’ll go buy a snarky reply and as soon as I get my PDF file, I’ll post it here.

    Not sure if I should go for the shop special or do the fee avoidance thing and save 3.5 percent. But don’t you worry, I am going to tell you to stuff it and it’s going to be hours before it will belately sink in. Please don’t feel offended if I go for the discounted snark letter. I have no clue who you are and if you are worth and additional 3.5 percent.

  187. sputnik January 8, 2010 at 5:47 pm #

    hahahahaha! You should go for the discount I’m totally not worth the additional 3.5%!

  188. crapgawker January 8, 2010 at 5:52 pm #

    Better get right on that Sputnik – after she gains traction the prices in the shop are going up.

  189. co January 8, 2010 at 6:26 pm #

    By traction, I think she means she’s going to charge more for her run on sentences.

  190. sputnik January 8, 2010 at 6:40 pm #

    co I can’t really fault her for run on sentences, I have a terrible time controlling that myself. I love commas and semi colons!
    But really, she should stick with offering her pithy responses in the forum, no one should be paying for that kind of writing.
    Now your retort to me, that was beautiful and priceless!

  191. denise January 8, 2010 at 7:02 pm #

    Lucinda might have been better off just leaving this alone. She broke the rules, got caught and was told to remove the stuff that didn’t conform. It could have been left at that.

    Instead she starts a couple forum posts, threatens to sue and stirs her own pot. Then Pussdaddy comes along (yay!!!) and exposes past forum threads that raises the question of whether she really is a professional writer. She doesn’t appear to be so in March 2009.

    Although she was asked more than once in the forum thread, she never did answer the question of whether admin gave her permission to offer the proofreading service explicitly. So, we will never know the answer to that.

    I was amazed to see how many sellers in that thread said they asked if they could sell writing services and were told they couldn’t.

    She has a brief pity party in the forums with her drama about crying to her computer at age 40ish. HeyMichelle gives her a gloriously sympathetic speech before thread lock down. Michelle never said anything to the sellers in the thread who said they were all told they couldn’t offer writing services.

    This sympathy to the rule breakers while ignoring those who are legitimately operating is why the forums have turned into such a cat fight (no offense to Pussdady).

    Etsy needs to take a lesson from this instance.

  192. co January 8, 2010 at 7:40 pm #

    Seriously Sput, sit back and relax. It’s going to be like novacaine. It will wear off slowly but you won’t feel a thing, then wham! It’s going to feel like you were kicked in the jaw.
    The pain will subside and you will be left with only the memory of how to be a well-behaved buyer who will think twice before complaining that your cowel wearing owl came wrapped in a towel and was three months late getting to you.
    I did not get the $100 deal that included sending a hit man to your house. I went for the sweet stuff it package, seeing how you said you aren’t worth the extra cash.

    If you are worried about what’s going to happen to you in a few hours when this belatedly sinks in, then I will shoot over to Etsy right now and buy you one of those “keep calm and carry on” posters.

    Do you want me to send you this letter in PDF, JPG or WTF?

  193. Wha? January 8, 2010 at 7:48 pm #

    co

    lololol you make me smile 🙂

  194. Amy Lynn January 8, 2010 at 7:48 pm #

    So many comments already… but I had to add… I almost feel bad saying this, but I’m pretty satisfied that she hasn’t had any sales in her Business Letters shop since this has been going on. She probably was hoping this blog would backfire by getting her more publicity (and sales) if she cried about it in the forums.

  195. co January 8, 2010 at 7:57 pm #

    Oh, and please Sput … don’t run over to the forums to start a pity party thread. I only bought the economy letter and it’s hardly worthy of one verse of Kumbaya.

  196. Angel January 8, 2010 at 8:54 pm #

    My biggest concern is that the seller in question has been offering these “services” for free on the forums and various other websites (including this one) for a little while now. Usually near verbatim of something someone else posted before she did.

    Is she crediting the people that actually wrote the initial responses in the forums, of which she has essentially compiled? Will she be sharing the profit?

    You know what would happen if I realized belatedly that a seller had told me to go fuck myself (regardless of how polite it was)? I’d actively ensure that every last person I know wouldn’t spend a dime at the shop. I’d go out of my way to spread the word.

    That’s just plain fucking business customer service blowback. They teach this in beginner fucking classes. One bad customer experience has more repercussions on a business than one good customer experience. Why the fuck would you ACTIVELY MAKE THAT WORSE?

  197. Crazy Cat Lady January 8, 2010 at 8:57 pm #

    What gets me, co, is that the “problem” Lucinda had in that post you mention is that it could not be a problem at all. As I said in the Closed Threads blog, why not HELP the buyer find something IN her price range?!? Instead of silver, try pewter…etc. She said this was a person she knew – why not invite the person over and bring out the beads over some coffee? Talk about how much each bead cost and let the buyer decide what she wants? I’ve had the same “problem” a few times and I’ve always made the buyer happy.

    She doesn’t seem to give a whit about making the buyer happy…you can search the forum posts and she has many posts that start like this, complaining about “unreasonable” friends, would be buyers, etc. that any professional business/sales person should be able to deal with no problem.

    Denise, she’s 47 (or maybe 48 now). I don’t believe she has any writing credentials; she’s had a few on line creative writing boards she’s started but no formal schooling (like a BA/MA) and again, to my knowledge, has never been published either. So I feel bad for people buying things from a “professional writer” when she’s not. I mean, I could call myself a “professional chef” because I made the kids mac and cheese tonight, kwim?

  198. co January 8, 2010 at 9:06 pm #

    Do you have a link to her creative online writing boards?

  199. co January 8, 2010 at 9:07 pm #

    Sput must be off putting worry dolls under all the pillows.

  200. Crazy Cat Lady January 8, 2010 at 9:08 pm #

    No, I don’t know if she has any now. The ones I know about were from years ago and I think it kind of fell apart due to disinterest.

  201. sputnik January 8, 2010 at 9:49 pm #

    co!! It just hit me, YOU BITCH!! How dare you condescend to me and tell me I can’t start a pity party!!
    😀 Not my style! co you crack me up! Maybe you should open a shop on Etsy offering to rewrite people’s emails to their clients. Apparently even though editing is against the rules, rewriting is fine!

    Angel, yes it seems very short sighted to send an email that at any point would dawn on the buyer that they were condescended to. Shortsighted and stupid.

  202. Can't sue for opinions or examples... January 8, 2010 at 10:21 pm #

    Is this chick for real!?!?!?!

    http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6398803

    OMG!!! Take a class!!!! Read a book!!! Ask a friend, but holy shit don’t post this crap on the forums if you are claiming to be a “professional.”

    100 Pages, really, you have something that is over 100 pages? Are you charging per page or just a flat $20 to be bumped later so BUY NOW, BUY NOW, BUY NOW?

    This has to be a joke!

    Dear DBL/BusinessLetters,

    “Professionals” don’t post this type of thing on public forums.

    Get a clue and just stop. Seriously, this won’t lead to “pity buys” and just undermines you further. You really are your own worst enemy.

  203. Can't sue for opinions or examples... January 8, 2010 at 10:23 pm #

    And, this is just NeatThings all over again!

    Who the hell wants to be associated with or emulate that ridiculous NeatThings person?

    omg

  204. Wha? January 8, 2010 at 10:36 pm #

    Maybe she should write at the bottom of each of her posts: “Typing through the tears…”

    Makes me want to buy buy buy..

  205. sputnik January 8, 2010 at 10:44 pm #

    She is really ridiculous. Maybe someone should let her know that there is this thing called google. You can put your search terms in google and it will show you all these sites that can help.
    http://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+do+chapters+in+adobe+acrobat

  206. Em January 8, 2010 at 11:15 pm #

    Also want to add: professionals don’t title their forum posts with ‘OMG!!’

    If I weren’t already aware of her age, I’d picture her as a snotty 16-year-old.

    I can write a good essay; can I call myself a professional and sell essay-writing services to college students?

  207. co January 9, 2010 at 1:21 am #

    sputnik Says:
    January 8, 2010 at 10:44 pm
    She is really ridiculous. Maybe someone should let her know that there is this thing called google. You can put your search terms in google and it will show you all these sites that can help.

    Maybe someone should let her know how foolish she looks

  208. co January 9, 2010 at 1:41 am #

    100 Pages, really, you have something that is over 100 pages?

    She’s probably trying to put all these responses in book format so she can have herself a self-help book for when she’s having a writer’s block

  209. RocksInMySocks January 9, 2010 at 2:04 am #

    sputnik says:
    Now speaking to Etsy and the forums in general. It seems that calling out publicly on those forums is getting to be quite in vogue. Seems we may be heading to critical mass with the lack of any sort of action on the part of Etsy.
    They continue to let resellers linger long enough to make sales
    They let scammers accounts stay active
    They let sellers bash buyers publicly
    They ignore the spamming of tags
    They ignore valid flags
    They allow sellers with sockpuppets to go along business as usual
    They let people openly list things against the TOU (how hard is it to run a search on drop shipping? or anything else for that matter)
    the list goes on and on and on and on and on

    This inaction on Admins part is causing people to get more and more agitated and so they lash out by calling out on the forums. The sad part is instead of doing something about that list above, they silence the agitated party.

    ————

    This is SO worth repeating, over and over again! Great post!

  210. Erika January 9, 2010 at 5:32 am #

    Here’s why I am skeptical about her claim to being a professional writer:

    1. There’s nothing anywhere, in any of her listing, to address who is going to hold the copyright to these letters she is writing. It’s not addressed at all in her item descriptions and I think that would be a priority for a professional writer. A professional writer would likely disclose this to potential clients prior to purchasing. She has offered herself no visible protection to stop the buyer from reselling or republishing her work.

    2. She has not even copyrighted her own shop announcement, profile page, or policies. A professional writer, especially one who is selling shop announcements, is definitely going to copyright their own shop announcement and the content of writing in their own shop.

    3. A professional freelance writer knows enough to use a disclaimer clause, especially when handling business letters or any subject matter that’s subjective. She has no disclaimer stating that she does not guarantee success, so she has offered herself no protection.

    4. She makes a claim of the buyer receiving proper grammar and spelling, however; her own shop announcement is not written with proper grammar and punctuation. A professional writer would be meticulous about how they present his or her self to potential clients. First impressions do count.

    5. I agree with all those who are of the opinion that a seller of professional writing services would list their published credits, education, and/or any professional writing organizations to which they are a member.

    6. I agree with those who are of the opinion that a professional writer would likely carry insurance and would state this fact.

    7. A professional writer would liikely be familiar with the libel and defamation laws, especially if the writer is providing subjective material, which is the case when you are acting as the “ghost” liasion between a seller and a potentially irrate customer. Defamation and/or libel constitutes something published from one other to another. It does not have to be published for the public to see. That one other person can be the receipient of the letter to qualify for a claim of defamation in most states. For that reason, I would think proper copyrighting and disclaimer statements would be in place.

    All of this is my opinion, but I really feel badly for this seller because it appears she left so many loose ends that she could run into problems someday.

    A professional writer is held to a much higher standard (say for instance, in a defamation case) than a writer who labels him or her self an amateur or a hobbiest. I would think anyone selling professsional writing services would cover all their bases, and that’s why I am a skeptic.

  211. Can't sue for opinions or examples... January 9, 2010 at 8:52 am #

    A couple of her listings STILL describe proofing and editing in the *description* while the title says something else, so she is STILL in violation of the TOU.

    Completely agree with Erika. Professional writers post their resume. That’s just how it works.

    Why would she embarrass herself to this degree?

  212. co January 9, 2010 at 9:30 am #

    Why wouldn’t she at least have some disclaimer.

    Nobody jumped into this thread she started

    http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6395463

  213. uh-huh January 9, 2010 at 9:51 am #

    I love how “tact” is used as a tag.

  214. Chikahrealia January 9, 2010 at 10:03 am #

    Con ogni inserzione c’è un elemento tangable e che è consentito per condizioni per Etsy utilizzo… Un file PDF viene inviato w/ogni acquisto.

    Solo perché non ti piace ciò che consente a Etsy non significa che si possano schiacciare quelle mezzi di reddito…

    Concentrarsi sulla crap in negozi di sudore, i rivenditori & non coloro che non violano le regole.

    Vi preghiamo di ottenere una vita o terapia…

  215. Crazy Cat Lady January 9, 2010 at 10:04 am #

    No one jumped into the thread because no one understood what she was talking about (probably). I had to read it a couple times. If she said the name of “biggie web supplier” people could have helped her with finding the contact info on the “biggie web supplier’s” site.

    Other than that, WHY would “biggie web supplier” be reading the etsy forum?

  216. co January 9, 2010 at 10:28 am #

    My Italian isn’t that great but I think she defended Lucinda and told the rest of us to get therapy.

  217. Crazy Cat Lady January 9, 2010 at 10:34 am #

    Sarah in Italy? Is that you?

  218. co January 9, 2010 at 10:52 am #

    Maybe that’s our stuff it letter. I’ll let you know in a few hours when it belatedly sinks in

  219. Translations January 9, 2010 at 11:00 am #

    According to Google translate, this means

    “With each ad there is an element that is allowed for tangable and conditions for use Etsy … A PDF file is sent w / every purchase.
    Just because you do not like what enables Etsy does not mean that we can crush those means of income …
    Focusing on the crap in sweat shops, retailers & not those who do not violate the rules.
    Please get a life or therapy …”

  220. co January 9, 2010 at 11:10 am #

    I knew we were told to get therapy. Some college has stuck with me.

  221. sputnik January 9, 2010 at 11:10 am #

    I guess she told us!
    I’m here today just to see what lovely commentary co is going to provide me with today. 🙂 I’d heart ya co if I could.

  222. Knowing your business January 9, 2010 at 11:55 am #

    If your Etsy business depends totally for legitimacy on PDFs you should know all about them

    http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6398803

  223. co January 9, 2010 at 12:02 pm #

    Awww shucks. You made me blush… but I know you’re only trying to smoosh me so I let you throw your forum pity party.

    If you insist on having one, I can buy the deluxe package, but it can’t be delivered until the hitman gets out of traction.

  224. co January 9, 2010 at 12:05 pm #

    PDF knowledge could very well help a business dependent on PDF knowledge.

  225. sputnik January 9, 2010 at 12:17 pm #

    co are you in CO? Asking cause the snow might be making you a little mental. 😉
    I’m gonna throw my pity party and all my cupcake friends are gonna tell you you’re a meanie.

  226. Can't sue for opinions or examples... January 9, 2010 at 12:37 pm #

    LOL @ co and sputnik

    I love the psyhco-drama theatre of the mind performance you are engaged in.

    Thanks for the laughs!

  227. co January 9, 2010 at 12:38 pm #

    No snow. I don’t need snow to make me a little mental. It all just comes naturally with no elements needed.

    I’m not sure if you’re eligible for the group hug since you only received the economy letter. Go give it a shot if you’d like but you might need to employ your sock puppet or Muppet puppet friends to come to your defense.

    BTW, would you like to co-author the new manual I am writing to sell on Etsy in PDF format? It’s called “How to make a PDF for those who sell, but don’t know how, to make a PDF.”

    My shop name is going to be WTF is a PDF, IYP.”

  228. co January 9, 2010 at 12:39 pm #

    I threw the extra comma in just to see if you’re employed by the punctuation police.

  229. crapgawker January 9, 2010 at 12:43 pm #

    Why on earth would you want to advertise the fact that you don’t know how to make pdf files when your business depends on your knowing?

    She needs to stay OUT of the forums. For a really, really long time.

  230. co January 9, 2010 at 12:51 pm #

    Can’t sue for opinions or examples… Says:
    January 9, 2010 at 12:37 pm
    LOL @ co and sputnik

    I love the psyhco-drama theatre of the mind performance you are engaged in.
    —————————————————–

    Sputnik, I have some snow day $$ hanging around if you want to sue for that mean remark.

    Just wait a few hours can’t sue. See what belately arrives in your mailbox. It won’t be your birthday card.

    Ok, I’m off to the forum to see if admin can give me an answer to whether psycho-drama theatre is REALLY allowed.

  231. sputnik January 9, 2010 at 12:57 pm #

    You crack me up. I would love to co-author!
    I have sent out the call to the muppet puppet friends and you’ll be sorry for telling me to “stuff it”.

  232. Can't sue for opinions or examples... January 9, 2010 at 12:59 pm #

    LOL!

  233. sputnik January 9, 2010 at 1:07 pm #

    On a serious note, she wants to charge people for editing and being a professional write and she’s using nitro to write pdf files? If you’re going to tell people you’re a professional and charge accordingly, you should be using Acrobat.

    I am professional web sight designer i use front page.

  234. sputnik January 9, 2010 at 1:09 pm #

    good gracious, “professional writer” not “professional write”

  235. Mary January 9, 2010 at 1:22 pm #

    co Says:
    January 9, 2010 at 10:52 am

    Maybe that’s our stuff it letter. I’ll let you know in a few hours when it belatedly sinks in

    ————————————–

    Hahaha! Awesome!

    Shouldn’t a good [professional] writer be able to convey his or her message without emoticons? In this listing she ends most of the paragraphs with a smiley instead of a period.
    http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=35321565
    I don’t know. If I paid for professional writing services I would want something a helluva lot better then that!

  236. crapgawker January 9, 2010 at 1:26 pm #

    @ #236 Why Mary – it’s the new trend. ALL the professionals are ending paragraphs with smileys now 🙂

  237. Knowing your business January 9, 2010 at 1:35 pm #

    She’s fast

    http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6399347

  238. co January 9, 2010 at 2:22 pm #

    Please don’t call out members of the community. If you have an issue with a forum post, Sput is a professional write and will handle your situation with TLC in a PFD (pdf file for dummies).

    I’m afraid I’m going to have to close this thread now 🙂

  239. co January 9, 2010 at 3:06 pm #

    Oh this is great for a laugh. Here’s Lucinda in this forum post, citing the TOS.

    DesignedByLucinda says:
    Autos are one of the few expressly forbidden items in the Tos or in Dos and Don’ts. Not even handmade ones 🙂

    DesignedByLucinda says:
    From Prohibited Items list in the Do’s and Don’ts wayyyyy toward the bottom:

    Some items are inappropriate for Etsy’s marketplace, even though they may otherwise meet Etsy’s selling criteria. You may not list the following types of items on Etsy:

    Alcohol
    Tobacco
    Drugs, drug-like substances, drug paraphernalia
    Live animals, illegal animal products
    Pornography
    Firearms and/or weapons
    Recalled items
    Real estate
    Motor vehicles (automobiles, motorcycles, boats, etc.)
    Items that promote or glorify hatred, racial, religious intolerance
    Items that instruct others to engage in illegal activity

    Here’s the forum post, titled, “Can I sell my car here on Etsy.”

    http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6399385

    The usual keystone cops are chiming in to be sure the poster knows it’s against the TOS.

    Oh, what is it called when one who breaks the rules then preaches the rules?

  240. Can't sue for opinions or examples... January 9, 2010 at 3:27 pm #

    Hypocrisy

  241. Stuff It January 9, 2010 at 3:34 pm #

    Oh, what is it called when one who breaks the rules then preaches the rules?

    making an ass of oneself

  242. sputnik January 9, 2010 at 6:47 pm #

    co Says: Oh, what is it called when one who breaks the rules then preaches the rules?

    Lucinda?

    I a professional write and i sell cars on etsy

  243. sputnik January 9, 2010 at 6:50 pm #

    Hey wait, I have to apologize for my last post. I was just outright mean and I know better. We’re supposed to be condescending and no one is supposed to know it was mean for a few hours.
    I promise to try harder.
    ::hangs head in shame::

  244. pussdaddy January 9, 2010 at 7:23 pm #

    She just wants “to shake her in real life buyers” sometimes
    http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5666418

  245. pussdaddy January 9, 2010 at 7:24 pm #

    I am not sure she is even first world as she said in that thread. I think she comes from a different dimension of time and space or somethin’.

  246. ReasonableSandra January 9, 2010 at 7:31 pm #

    I’m a little surprised to see that this is still going on. Maybe it is time to move on now.

  247. Wha? January 9, 2010 at 7:34 pm #

    I feel dumber after reading her posts.. is that supposed to happen now or a few hours later?

  248. pussdaddy January 9, 2010 at 7:37 pm #

    For the record, I have talked to Lucinda by email for some time now. Some times it is pleasant, some times it isn’t. I promised her I would always talk to her before I blogged about her in a negative light on my blog. However, when she first started this forum thread

    http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6262684

    she sent it to me to look at to sort of to approve because some people just don’t want to chance appearing on my blog in a negative light and she is one of ’em. It did not have this many pages when she sent it and I glanced at it and it seemed pretty innocent so I said OK whatever because I was doing other more important things at the time and I figured it was just another thread that would sink eventually anyway. I do not recall her telling me she was going to write manuals that did not even belong on etsy and that they would be angled toward putting buyers in their place and hitting them with snark so witty they won’t know what hit them until later, or anything like that. When she sent the thread and I read what was there it seemed geared toward customer service like she said. Instead she turned out snarky assed manuals geared at PITA buyers and putting them in their place. I feel she was not really truthful with her intent with that thread when she sent it to me and did not disclose what it was really about, she just sent it to me in the hopes that if she sent it to me before I found it or someone else sent it to me that I would figure it was innocent, which I did. So considering this sneaky stuff on her part I did not feel that I should be held to my promise not to post about her on my blog without contacting her first and I just went ahead and did it. I didn’t feel like fucking arguing through email.

  249. pussdaddy January 9, 2010 at 7:37 pm #

    Feel free to move on then ReasonableSandra.

  250. co January 9, 2010 at 7:43 pm #

    Look Sput, if you are serious about remaining a member of the WTFISAPDF clique, you have to follow the rules and end each paragraph with a 🙂 Unless you are a used car salesman. In that case, you can use regular punctuation.

    Please read crapgawkers post up above for further clarification of professionalism.

  251. pussdaddy January 9, 2010 at 7:51 pm #

    Amy Lynn Says:
    January 8, 2010 at 7:48 pm
    So many comments already… but I had to add… I almost feel bad saying this, but I’m pretty satisfied that she hasn’t had any sales in her Business Letters shop since this has been going on. She probably was hoping this blog would backfire by getting her more publicity (and sales) if she cried about it in the forums.
    ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
    She seems pretty happy that my “blog post about her has improved her google rating”.

    Whatever

  252. co January 9, 2010 at 7:53 pm #

    Well I never heard the USA referred to as the First World. I thought we were known as the Free World.

    Learn something new everyday. Thanks for posting that Pussdaddy 🙂

  253. pussdaddy January 9, 2010 at 7:54 pm #

    I’m just simply sick of sellers who think they shit rose petals and think that what they make you should take it and have it bronzed for eternity and shit.

  254. pussdaddy January 9, 2010 at 7:55 pm #

    Her shit is so good it’s always first evidently.

  255. co January 9, 2010 at 8:03 pm #

    That was an interesting thread. Now off to read the other one.

  256. co January 9, 2010 at 8:14 pm #

    In all honesty, and I wouldn’t care who the seller was, if I got some of those responses, the seller would never hear from me again.

    I would not want to hear a seller whine about overhead costs, paying taxes, and component costs. I would just want the question answered. I’d have this one deleted in a heartbeat.

    Dear Buyer,

    I sincerely would love a world where all one had to pay was the cost of the components alone – – but there are *so* many business expenses that have to tag along in the price tag! All businesses have to pay taxes, have licenses and zoning permits, pay for other raw materials, pay for insurance and that doesn’t even begin to cover overhead expenses and labor and sourcing resources. It is like eating at a restaurant – – you know you can get Strip steak at $4.99 on sale but the restaurant charges $18.99 for a half pounder. The restuarant has other expenses to cover than just the price of the meat – – it works the same way for clothing shops and sporting goods shops and jewelry shops. Plus, I learned my techniques over many years so part of my pricing pays for my level of expertise – – so the XY ends up costing what it costs 🙂

    I love that xyz component and I am glad my finished XY caught your eye. I am very pleased with the way it turned out and I am glad you commented on it. Thanks for making my day 🙂

    SassyCheekyChic

    (mailing list blurb)

  257. co January 9, 2010 at 8:35 pm #

    On second thought, maybe I would write back—

    Dear Seller,

    I’m sorry to hear that you’re over your head with expenses. I would presume that you would have factored all of this when preparing your business plan. My inquiry wasn’t to put you on the defense, and I apologize for doing so.

    I’m a vegan, so I don’t know the cost of steak. I only inquired about your cost, with no intention of eating my purchase.

    Thank you for your reply

  258. Sarah January 9, 2010 at 8:43 pm #

    Quietly lurking… ^^^and rofling at co’s posts. 😀 Just don’t get cocky and make a book out of this, k?

  259. crapgawker January 9, 2010 at 8:56 pm #

    Another one?

    http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6399755&page=1

    God – that woman makes more threads than Coats & Clark!

  260. co January 9, 2010 at 9:01 pm #

    That Katina is a marketing genius 🙂

    And the last post in this thread, in her last sentence, she finally figures out how to spell brulee 🙂

    http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6398803&page=2

  261. co January 9, 2010 at 9:05 pm #

    Do you think she means creme brulee?

  262. co January 9, 2010 at 9:09 pm #

    This cartoonist is hitting the brulee. Gosh, this has been fun.

    Keep calm and carry on. With professionalism, of course 🙂

  263. Lollygagging January 9, 2010 at 9:27 pm #

    Feeling ill…….

    DesignedByLucinda says:
    Karina, *I* am good with Customer Service and I didn’t see that one coming.

    For someone who seemed nice enough a few days ago, now I really cringe when I see her posting.

    Why doesn’t she just take a break for a while?
    *It* is getting annoying.

  264. Lollygagging January 9, 2010 at 9:33 pm #

    She also said she would consider the customer service postion at Etsy if you didn’t have to be located in NY.

    DesignedByLucinda says:
    “I’d consider something if it could be done from home but I have no interest in moving back to NYC.

    And I have oodles of customer service experience ;)”

    (*Ducks*)

  265. Michelle-in-Iowa January 9, 2010 at 10:01 pm #

    Unfortunately, I go way back with Lucinda. She has a desperate need to be in the center of everything and will create drama and crises if need be. She will kiss your ass if she feels it will serve her well but will not bat an eye at going apeshit on you later. Honestly, and I don’t say this lightly, but after nearly a decade of watching her decimate friendships and cause turmoil everywhere she went, I came to believe she suffers from some sort of mental health issue.

    She is not a professional writer, not by any stretch of the imagination. She’s never been published, did not go to college. She is a stay at home mom in her late 40s and I’ve had more than one moment over the last several years in which I was sincerely worried about the wellbeing of her sons. She used to breed dogs, for all I know still does. She sort of “becomes” whatever she’s doing at the moment, so when she started selling jewelry, the backstory became that her experience with it goes way back, used to work in a jewelry store, etc. Probably in New York City.

    When she wants to be a professional writer, she just jokes about self-publishing a book at five years old. That might be the only honest thing she’s ever said.

    She’s always an “expert” on the topic at hand, except that she’s not. Most people catch on to her inconsistencies pretty quickly, but others are blinded for a while by the heavy-handed way she tries to ingratiate herself with them.

    Eventually most everyone either actively dislikes her/avoids her/distrusts her or at the very least just wants her to go away. When it gets bad enough, she moves on to a fresh new crop of unsuspecting people.

    You are dealing with someone who is really unstable. Let’s see, she’s been at etsy since mid-2007, right? This is right about the time when she’s got her audience running about 40% can’t stand her, 40% LOVE HER! and 20% indifferent-but-wish-the-nonstop-drama-would-end.

    Her biggest downfall is that she leaves such a huge trail of her own words and seems to forget that the internet remembers everything. Eventually most people catch on to her weirdo bullshit, but she’s always the victim, completely baffled by what she perceives as a huge witchhunt. She’s the righteous martyr who is always wronged.

  266. sputnik January 9, 2010 at 10:51 pm #

    co I was considering replacing all my o’s with 🙂
    I figured that would be too much so I will comply because I definitely want to be part of the WTFISAPDF clique 🙂
    I found one of those lives that everyone over on the etsy forums advised us to do, and got out of the house tonight 🙂 I ended up at a shop called Z Gallerie and they had “Keep Calm and Carry On” decks of cards and there I was cracking up in the middle of the store 😀
    @ReasonableSandra how can we move on when Lucinda is still offering editing services in her shop? Not to mention she apparently still wants all the drama so who are we to deny her?
    @Michelle-in-Iowa, Lucinda sounds like a very sad individual which really doesn’t surprise me at all. It’s really sickening to see her acting all high and mighty on the forums with her little cadre of fools and dimwits dancing to her tune. Hopefully you’re right and she’s nearing her expiration date.

    A serious question, do you guys think that the Internet has emboldened the crazies so we notice them more or are there just more crazies every day?

  267. Mary January 9, 2010 at 11:59 pm #

    She is a stay at home mom in her late 40s and I’ve had more than one moment over the last several years in which I was sincerely worried about the wellbeing of her sons
    ————–
    As someone who participated in the Adia thread I know I will come off sounding like a hypocrite, or maybe its my conscience finally getting off it’s lazy butt, but I am uncomfortable with this comment. The blog is calling out her writing skills and shop, not her parenting skills……

    I mean no disrespect to Michelle.

  268. pussdaddy January 10, 2010 at 12:35 am #

    Another one?

    http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6399755&page=1

    God – that woman makes more threads than Coats & Clark!
    ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
    Does anyone see the disparity of her glee over catching this soap deal when on the other hand she accuses other people of nickel and diming her to death?

  269. pussdaddy January 10, 2010 at 12:39 am #

    I find what michelle says to be true. Lucinda does try to kiss ass as long as I don’t blog about her, and I have even told her that I know she is doing this when she is doing it. However I would not go so far as to say she is mentally unstable or crazy or anything like that from my own experiences with her.

  270. pussdaddy January 10, 2010 at 12:43 am #

    I also see no need to bring her parenting skills into it.

  271. co January 10, 2010 at 5:58 am #

    In all seriousness, keep flagging.

  272. RocksInMySocks January 10, 2010 at 6:28 am #

    2 words: attention whore

  273. co January 10, 2010 at 6:50 am #

    I read through a lot of her letters thread, and have to say, most of them are ludicrous. I wouldn’t want to be on the receiving end. I’d be like WTF, and that would be the end of it.

    Professional writer, professional customer service rep, professional sumo wrestler— doesn’t matter what the profession— no one with an ounce of common sense is going to send a potential customer a letter rambling on and on about overhead expenses.

    Let’s not forget, in March 2009, she was in the forums looking for someone to help her write a letter and now she’s a professional writer. Oh, the irony of it all.

    @sput, I’m glad you went and got a life. I think as PC prices drop, more crazies come along. You can stay in the WTFISAPDF group, provided you end every paragraph with the official logo 🙂

    @lollygagging, can you post that thread?

  274. Lollygagging January 10, 2010 at 7:13 am #

    http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6396212

  275. Crazy Cat Lady January 10, 2010 at 7:42 am #

    I don’t believe Michelle in Iowa was necessarily talking about her parenting skills, and she sure wasn’t dissing SAHMs, but rather talking to Cindy’s mental state. I understood exactly what she meant, having also known Cindy around the internet for approx. 10 years.

    In fact, I’m why Cindy is on etsy; we were on a separate site when I started my etsy shop and Cindy was very jealous (I also sell beaded jewelry but a *completely* different style). The other people on that site were very encouraging but she harassed me and finally I said, “if you think you can do better, go for it” and she opened her shop. So…blame me, lol. Before she had her etsy shop she had “three walls” shop in a flea market type place and was *always* asking us what to do to get customers, what to do about problem customers, customers want something for nothing, etc.

    She’s always had a customers vs. seller attitude…I just don’t see how one can be a happy seller like that!

    And Michelle, do I know you by another name?

  276. co January 10, 2010 at 8:11 am #

    Her resume just keeps on a growin 🙂

  277. notvintage January 10, 2010 at 8:29 am #

    Call me weird, but I have never needed help making a customer happy. You give them what they want, period. Those writing exercises seem to have a common thread: the customer wasn’t happy. Well, why not? Maybe the shit you sell sucks, or your service sucks. Sometimes you have to take a loss in order to keep your integrity, not cover it up.
    I know there are some nuts customers, and some that do not pay, but they are in the minority. You want to be professional, act like one by speaking in your own voice.

    If you need help dealing with difficult customers, there may be a reason for it that has nothing to do with the customer.

    Specializing writing copy to deal with difficult customers intimates that this person has experience with the subject: I wouldn’t want to advertise that fact all over the place!

  278. Em January 10, 2010 at 8:41 am #

    As far as this thread goes:

    http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5666418

    Maybe her jewelry seems pricey because she wants to pay herself $50 an hour.

  279. Chantelle January 10, 2010 at 9:56 am #

    The internet seems to be a great place for the crazies because they can find places that feed their needs. People who have never come into contact with someone like that don’t question what those people tell them, leaving them vulnerable to manipulation.

    Everything Michelle said leads me to think that Lucinda has a personality disorder, and if that’s the case, I feel for those people who have to deal with her. People with personality disorders tend not to think of themselves as having done anything wrong and don’t see themselves the way others do. It’s impossible to reason with them about their behaviour. They can be helped to lead more “normal” lives if they want… but few of them want to.

    Disclaimer – I’m no expert in this area, but I do have two family members with personality disorders, so I have lots of familiarity with some of their characteristics.

  280. Wha? January 10, 2010 at 9:56 am #

    @ http://go2.wordpress.com/?id=725X1342&site=etsycallout.wordpress.com&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.etsy.com%2Fforums_thread.php%3Fthread_id%3D6399755%26page%3D1

    I love how she switches back and forth between store names, just in case someone needs a “rewrite” at that moment in time.

    I’m not sure about anyone else, but I wouldn’t trust a shop that offers by the hour prices. You have no control over how much it would cost. Maybe it took her 3 hours to figure out how to spell your name.

  281. denise January 10, 2010 at 9:58 am #

    “You want to be professional, act like one by speaking in your own voice. ”

    ~~~~
    I couldn’t agree with that more! There are many buyers and sellers lurking the forums who never post. Some seller could buy her manual (filled with the form letters she posted on a public forum) and send one off to a customer who will recognize it as such. Then what have you done to the customer? He or she will surely know they are being belatedly told to stuff-it, and that’s only going to exacerbate what is most likely an already-problematic situation.

    I don’t have an Etsy store but I’ve bought about 20 things from there. Every transaction was good. What bothers me the most is that Business Letters references all of these hostile and difficult buyers. I wouldn’t want to think that if I had a legitimate problem with something I purchased, and exercised my right to complain, that I could subject myself to such correspondence.

    I am appalled that an employee of Etsy would encourage this type of customer service treatment (Business Letters stated that she was asked by an employee of Etsy why it took her so long to open her store). That in itself tells me that Etsy is not the place I want to drop my hard earned money. If an Etsy employee wants to encourage the “stuff-it” mentality of customer service, then they will reap what they sow.

  282. Lollygagging January 10, 2010 at 10:17 am #

    Not diagnosing or anything, but someone mentioned PD which already had crossed my mind after Michelle’s posting.

    Narcissistic Personality Disorder
    Symptoms:
    A person with narcissistic personality disorder:
    Reacts to criticism with rage, shame, or humiliation
    Takes advantage of other people to achieve his or her own goals
    Has feelings of self-importance
    Exaggerates achievements and talents
    Is preoccupied with fantasies of success, power, beauty, intelligence, or ideal love
    Has unreasonable expectations of favorable treatment
    Requires constant attention and admiration
    Disregards the feelings of others, lacks empathy
    Has obsessive self-interest
    Pursues mainly selfish goals

  283. Michelle-in-Iowa January 10, 2010 at 10:55 am #

    This will be my last post on the issue, as I don’t care to get this person even remotely near my life again, after I’ve successfully extricated her (and it took a while). And I don’t diagnose people over the internet, either. But like I said, I dealt with her in a social manner for about ten years and at first, she was all over me like you wouldn’t believe, very flattering, extremely friendly, always complimenting and supporting me. I thought it was a bit odd, but nothing to send up red flags or anything. In fact, I was flattered by all the attention. At the time, I thought she was a very nice person who could be extremely passionate and outspoken about things, that’s all.

    But over time, I saw how she would orchestrate problems between people behind the scenes and make minor issues worse by continuing to bring things up, continuing to start arguments with people. There was always turmoil around her, always. It took a lot of people a long time to finally see that she was always the common factor in all the drama. She throws around crazy accusations, gets people doubting themselves, privately says different things to different people. Never give her your phone number, you will have to change it, I promise. Even after I changed mine, one of her people who were still friends with her found my new one and began calling me night and day, harrassing me to no end, so I had to change it again.

    I stuck with her for a long time, because she had me convinced that everyone else really was persecuting her. Bad on me. I can’t believe I believed her for so long. I was so duped.

    crazy cat lady, I think we were acquainted at one time, but we went different ways a few years ago. Unfortunately, that was thanks to Cindy. I’ve gone my own way and am very wary of people on the internet now because of her. I do think mental health issues are much more easily masked on the internet than in real life, MUCH more. So I’m very careful.

    Oh and don’t worry about her threats to sue. If I had a buck for every time she threatened to sue someone on the internet, I could buy a boat by now. I’ve seen her do that a million times, never with any grounds. She has no money. She lives month to month near poverty. I doubt she could even afford the court costs, much less the attorney’s fees.

    I do think there are legit issues brought up here about etsy and etsy needs to take care of them. I used to buy things on etsy, but stopped about a year ago because it became so hard to wade through all the crap, reselling, overpriced stuff that was obviously not handmade, you name it.

    As for her writing shop, I nearly fell over when I saw that she said she is an expert in diplomacy and tact. That is probably the #1 thing she is horrible at. Absolutely horrible. In fact, if you want to hire someone to destroy your seller-buyer relationship, hire her, she’ll get the job done. Her writing shop won’t go anywhere. But yeah, etsy needs to deal with this. I think this site is great–as a seller I have flagged a few things that were in blatant violation and nothing was ever done. I also love Regretsy.

  284. Michelle-in-Iowa January 10, 2010 at 10:59 am #

    I have to fix something above: I said “as a seller, I have flagged things…” That should be as a buyer. I’ve never sold a thing on etsy. I’m not crafty and am too lazy, anyway, LOL.

  285. Wha? January 10, 2010 at 11:29 am #

    I agree with you Michelle and I too have met people online that mask their personal issues to make their online life better than their offline.

    From her own postings, it seems to me, that she is put out that she has to “deal” with customers. That she would just prefer people to send her money and not ask questions. This makes me seriously doubt her ability to be professional. You MUST care about your customers or they wont care about you.

    Everyone has had unreasonable customers, but to whine, plot, or seek revenge is childlike.

  286. Crazy Cat Lady January 10, 2010 at 11:43 am #

    Michelle, I wish I knew who you were so I could come to peace with you in my mind. If she was at fault for breaking up a board we were on, and I was on her “side”, then yes I probably saw you as “persecuting her”. I understand though.

    However, I think I know why she feels this way toward buyers. Years ago I was a seller on ebay; and on our board I was like the resident ebay expert, lol. She bought a lot on ebay and resold it in her “three walls” shop. She seemed to have a lot of problems with people not sending her the proper items – the listing was for 40 things, she’d only get 30, or she wouldn’t get anything at all, etc. She’d ask what to do, I’d tell her the exact forms to fill out per ebay’s terms, and then she’d say “I don’t want to get the seller in trouble” or “it’s only $7 it’s no big deal” etc. I’d argue with her (oy vey) and try to convince her that it’s not right to let someone get away with bad business practices – but she would never want to “get anyone in trouble” by reporting them.

    So because she’s such a pussy as a buyer she probably can’t deal with buyers who aren’t?

  287. kitten January 10, 2010 at 11:47 am #

    I have over 1000 sales on ebay, two successful shops on Etsy and I think I can count the customers I would say were difficult on one hand.

    If DesignsByLucinda has a lot of difficult customers, after reading her rambling self-serving drivel in the forums for over a year, I have no doubt she’s the reason. Buyers beware.

  288. WTFISAPDF January 10, 2010 at 12:24 pm #

    ellen Says:
    January 10, 2010 at 10:26 am
    Stop, drop and roll.

    Good sleuthing Ellen. I see she runs a jewelry shop, makes jewelry, writes professionally, has oodles of experience with customer service, converts files to PDF, and is a SAHM. Good Lord, how does she find all the time to spend in the forums???

    This is going to push Sput right over the precipice.
    Sput, I am going to buy you these. I think they will bring you comfort 🙂

    -co

    http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=35391467&ref=sr_list_19&&ga_search_query=keep+calm&ga_search_type=handmade&ga_page=&includes%5B%5D=tags&includes%5B%5D=title

  289. suspicious crab January 10, 2010 at 12:36 pm #

    I too wonder why in the hell this woman has so much trouble with buyers that she has to write guides and share her knowledge about how to deal with “them”. It’s unfathomable. I’ve been selling on Etsy for over 3 years, have made over 1000 sales, and can honestly say I’ve never had a problem buyer. Yes, I have had 2 or 3 who contacted me to bring up an issue about something I sold them, but my reply to them was along the lines of “What can I do to make you happy?” and I did what I had to to make them happy. And then they were happy, I was happy, and they became loyal repeat buyers who are now fiercely devoted to me. Perhaps I should write a manual as well.

  290. Angel January 10, 2010 at 12:43 pm #

    I, too, am uncomfortable with the direction this seems to be going. We call out professional behaviour, we shouldn’t speculate on mental conditions with the same brush we discuss the TOU’s.

    Unverifiable accounts of personal issues, in my own opinion, have no place here in the format they were presented. It reads like high school bitchy. And they make us absolutely no better than those we “call out”. That is a fact.

    I’ll meet you guys in the other posts, I don’t think there is anything new to be said about this particular issue.

  291. Chantelle January 10, 2010 at 12:45 pm #

    Etsy’s favouritism drives me crazy because it shows how unprofessional they are. Lucinda should never have been able to sell those items and HeyMichelle never should have said anything to support her in her locking post.

    Etsy has dropped the ball when it comes to ensuring the integrity of the handmade-ness of the site. Once they allowed vintage and supplies through, bad things started trickling in. Had etsy clamped down then, the floodgates might not have opened. At this point, unless etsy starts getting rid of every bad items and sellers – whether it’s a reseller or someone who flagrantly abuses the TOU – etsy will be known as the online flea market.

  292. pussdaddy January 10, 2010 at 12:52 pm #

    You know, the more I read of her my customers want stuff for $5 and my in real life buyers nickel and dime me to death, and buyers must think I have a pipeline to China the way they try to talk my prices down and crap the more obnoxious I find her.

    I have said it before and I will say it again, only a fool opens a business on a whim with not enough money as back up to buy more supplies, cover refunds if needed, and lost packages and stuff like that. What kind of business person does that?

    PussDaddy

  293. suspicious crab January 10, 2010 at 12:53 pm #

    Vintage has been there since Etsy opened! Lucinda is a handmade seller, VonLady is a “handmade” seller (yes, I use the term loosely), the resellers are “handmade” sellers, etc etc etc. Don’t pin a bad rap solely on supplies and vintage. The supplies sellers especially – they’re always overlooked for features and treasuries and whatnot. They’re the Rodney Dangerfield of Etsy shops.

  294. pussdaddy January 10, 2010 at 12:56 pm #

    Oddly on this thread that was posted earlier she thinks that as a buyer she should be given what she wants when she wants it. But she doesn’t think so for her own customers. Maybe she is a split personality or something.

    http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6399755&page=1

  295. pussdaddy January 10, 2010 at 12:58 pm #

    The only reason she even made that thread is to talk up mailing lists because we were discussing her putting people on hers automatically against Etsy rules, and I find her sophomoric ass kissing sickening. I wonder why other people don’t see it?

  296. pussdaddy January 10, 2010 at 1:01 pm #

    Ellen, I posted this on her blog:

    PussDaddy said…
    For God’s sakes shut the fuck up for a while. Thanks.

    PussDaddy

    January 10, 2010 1:00 PM

  297. pussdaddy January 10, 2010 at 1:03 pm #

    What Michelle says is true, in at least one instance DesignedByLucinda took it upon herself to run interference between myself and someone I was blogging about and some one told me about it and I had to email her and tell her to stop antagonizing people I am dealing with as I am perfectly capable of doing it myself.

  298. Chantelle January 10, 2010 at 1:07 pm #

    “Give them an inch and they’ll take a mile” is what I’m saying, suspicious crab. It’s not the fault of the good supply and vintage sellers; it’s etsy’s fault for being stupid about how they define and enforce allowable items (and for showing such unprofessional favouritism).

    As the allowable item boundaries are formally expanded by etsy, some sellers will push those boundaries further. This whole proofreading debacle is an instance of some sellers pushing the new rule that a service that results in a tangible item like a pdf is allowed.

  299. pussdaddy January 10, 2010 at 1:11 pm #

    And it was in fact the person I had blogged about in the first damn place who let me know that she sticking her big fat nose into things by the way.

  300. pussdaddy January 10, 2010 at 1:14 pm #

    She is so transparent I can see right the fuck through and have always been able to, which is why her ass landed on my DNBF list within a matter of days of opening her mouth. I find her obnoxious, holier than thou, condescending, and above all a big fat fake.

  301. pussdaddy January 10, 2010 at 1:15 pm #

    Of course I have my own mental illness according to many so I may not be responsible for things that I say. 🙂

  302. suspicious crab January 10, 2010 at 1:36 pm #

    Gotcha, Chantelle. I agree.

  303. Lollygagging January 10, 2010 at 1:41 pm #

    Yeah, this is a little far for me too. I feel bad I got sucked in, but I think I’m out now too. I hope all the noise eventually dies down, and people start working on their own stuff again.

  304. Life During Wartime January 10, 2010 at 2:00 pm #

    Lollygagging Says:
    http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6396212
    —–
    Just what Etsy doesn’t need: a bunch of shop owners working customer service from home. Not that there is any objection to people doing customer service from home, as long as they don’t sell on Etsy. Same goes for content/flagging reviewers. Hire them, but no Etsy sellers, please.

    And it goes without saying that the shops presently owned by admins should be closed!

  305. pussdaddy January 10, 2010 at 2:57 pm #

    If any of you really need to snark at your customers I will write you out something for absolutely free and I garauntee they will know what hit them immediatley. 🙂

  306. Peach January 10, 2010 at 5:22 pm #

    Admins have shops? Are you kidding me?

  307. RocksInMySocks January 10, 2010 at 6:23 pm #

    ellen Says:
    January 10, 2010 at 10:26 am
    Stop, drop and roll.

    http://designedbylucinda.blogspot.com/2009/09/what-if-your-online-shop-gets-negative.html

    ___________________________

    Is she for real? Is she actually trying to pretend that her blog entry and that jacked-up template is based “loosely” on an email she received from someone she was trying to help?

    Michelle, everything you’ve said here is registering loud and clear with me. After a year of watching her behavior on the Etsy forums, I think you’ve described her behavior to a tee.

    Her jewelry designs are some of the most simplistic and basic beginner type pieces I’ve seen (they look well made just totally lacking in imagination and quite boring), yet she talks as if she’s some sort of renowned jewelry designer.

    I’m sick to death of reading her assinine posts for attention. At least she’s getting plenty of it here, although I’m sure it’s not exactly what she had in mind.

    PussDaddy, your comment on her blog is priceless. It’s a shame that your advice will probably fall on deaf ears.

  308. Janine January 10, 2010 at 8:31 pm #

    I have to agree that this has gone past the limits of calling-out a business. Michelle, no one should post such personal opinions (being concerned for the children’s well-being is WAY over the top to post in a business-based forum) about this seller’s past relationships/history, especially when you claim to never want her to be in your life again.
    If you think that you are a better person than she is, you sure haven’t acted as such, and I honestly don’t understand why you felt the need to dig up her (real or unreal) personal history.
    If you are so leery of getting anywhere near her and it took so long and so much work to extricate her from your life, was it worth it to try and smear her name some more and “risk” getting involved in her business?
    The ‘professional’ aspect of this calling-out has come and gone, resolved for the most part. The rest has just been rumours, whispering and finger-pointing on a playground.

    I don’t know Lucinda and have never purchased from her, but this gossip is unneccesary and inappropriate.

  309. WTFISAPDF January 10, 2010 at 8:32 pm #

    Hopefully tomorrow someone will remove the other violating listing from her shop

  310. Nobody Understands My Pain Either January 10, 2010 at 11:09 pm #

    Remember JJanak? https://etsycallout.wordpress.com/2009/11/06/reseller-call-out-jjanak/

    This was just on the front page: http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=37731179&ref=fp_feat_9

    How come I immediately recognized it as a reseller – one that even Etsy finally removed – but they’re on the front page today with a new store? Are you kidding me? I know Etsy admins read this blog…Please, please, PLEASE review the front page before you post it. This is so unbelievably disheartening. When people are practically begging in the forums to be featured on the FP, this shows up?

    You can find this coat and a TON of other “handmade” merchandise from a variety of “made with love” Etsy shops here: http://www.wholesale-dress.net

  311. Life During Wartime January 10, 2010 at 11:52 pm #

    I guess she recharged her battery ’cause she’s still going…

    http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6400875

    Anything for attention

  312. WTFISAPDF January 11, 2010 at 4:19 am #

    We’re empowered 🙂

    -co

  313. notvintage January 11, 2010 at 10:33 am #

    One of my favorite numbers from Gypsy!

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