Not Vintage- CapriciousTraveler

24 Sep

I had to do a double take when I saw the e-mail containing the Storque blog for Etsy’s Fashion Week post 9/24.    Who does these?  Are these people who do these blogs so young that they don’t know that Isotoner gloves are still made, and with no tag showing manufacture date for the gloves, there is no way of proving they are “vintage” in any way?

The gloves are listed here but have already sold:  http://www.etsy.com/listing/54188086/vintage-caramel-driving-gloves

According to Wikipedia, the company was founded in 1997.  Prior to 1997, it was known as the Aris company and would be tagged as such.  The style is Isotoner.  Sso if they’re tagged with the Isotoner logo, they’ve been manufactured since 1997.   Wikipedia link here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totes%C2%BBISOTONER

Prior to 1997, the brand was Aris. The style was Isotoner. They would be tagged as Aris.

Aris has made gloves since 1970; however, the gloves in the Etsy finds email are not vintage. They’re being sold currently on Isotoner’s website, and Wal-Mart has them for sale in the accessories aisle.

Also, they are listed here on Amazon (click on the camel color): http://www.amazon.com/Isotoner-Womens-Shortie-Unlined-Glove/dp/B001H0FCH8/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t

These same gloves are still sold by Isotoner:  http://www.totes-isotoner.com/product/isotoner/women/gloves/isotoner+spandex+gloves+-+thinsulate+lined.do?sortby=ourPicks

I wish they would run this stuff by someone who’s older than about 16 before deciding something is “vintage.”

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44 Responses to “Not Vintage- CapriciousTraveler”

  1. Hagatha Christie September 24, 2010 at 10:30 am #

    My mom tells me to tell you that Isotoner gloves (as the brand Isotoner) have been around since the seventies. Not sure how old those partic gloves are though.

  2. popstarprincess September 24, 2010 at 10:33 am #

    Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world, can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information

  3. Poster who Sent the Email September 24, 2010 at 10:39 am #

    No. Read carefully. Prior to 1997, the brand was Aris. The style was Isotoner. They would be tagged as Aris.

    Aris has made gloves since 1970; however, the gloves in the Etsy finds email are not vintage. They’re being sold currently on Isotoner’s website, and Wal-Mart has them for sale in the accessories aisle.

    Also, they are listed here on Amazon (click on the camel color): http://www.amazon.com/Isotoner-Womens-Shortie-Unlined-Glove/dp/B001H0FCH8/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t

  4. eyefortineye September 24, 2010 at 12:16 pm #

    yeah, I had Isotoners in the 80s.

    but it’s STUPID that they’re allowed to sell on etsy.

    I know “the 20 year rule” – but that rule is a pile of crap. vintage 20 years.

    shit.

  5. Life During Wartime September 24, 2010 at 12:21 pm #

    The 70s Aris Isotoners didn’t hold up very well, and I doubt there are many (any?) pairs left that you could wear. They certainly weren’t made with spandex and thinsulate, either. I don’t recall the 80s versions being much better.

    The called out item made it into the finds because the seller does Etsy style photos really well. Someone could hold up a used snotty tissue in front of the background, and Etsy would figure out some way to feature it as nasally altered.

  6. Poster September 24, 2010 at 12:51 pm #

    Here is what a pair of true vintage Isotoner gloves by Aris look like:

    http://www.vintagevirtuosa.com/items2.php?category=24&item=34&department=X

  7. Antiquer September 24, 2010 at 1:15 pm #

    I was permanently muted for pointing out fake vintage in a Storque article written by MaryMary. They are ignorant children and piss me off more than I can say, mainly because I can’t say it! I wasn’t even nasty about it– they protect their own, and we aren’t it.

  8. JK September 24, 2010 at 1:23 pm #

    Honestly, they may as well just tell the truth and rename the place Etsybay. Fake ‘vintage’? Sweatshop handmade? Find it all at Etsybay, where rules are only for sellers we don’t like!

  9. The Unknown Etsian September 24, 2010 at 1:54 pm #

    Sometimes the vintage sellers truly don’t know what they are listing. But I think most of the time they are trying to get away with something. If Mary Mary and other (Christine of the birth control glasses) cannot bother to research things they tout as vintage, Etsy should drop the pretense of vintage being 20 years or older.

  10. Life During Wartime September 24, 2010 at 2:26 pm #

    The Etsy staff is stuck in the 1990s with their ‘trends’, which is why stuff too new to be vintage appeals to them so strongly.

    For some handmade items (although not all) the seller can change a design or two a little to fit the looks Etsy is pushing. But genuinely old items do not fit with the 90s Shabby Chic, full metal industrial, or urban meets country looks. Which is why I think the staff loves repainted/altered vintage listed as vintage, and features that stuff so often. I don’t think I’ve seen more than a handful of items older than the late 1960s featured by Etsy. And I think that’s because the mid to late 60s has been in kind of a retro revival during the decade just past. Vintage has to be familiar, or the Etsy admins don’t like it.

    For vintage clothing and accessories, Etsy relies on teevee and film for information. So while series like Mad Men do use vintage fashions and decor items to set the mood, the Etsy kids don’t understand what they are seeing. Like they see women wearing gloves in the Mad Men 1960s, therefore gloves with fingers must be vintage because they’ve seen ’em on teevee — and contemporary hipster gloves have no fingers.

  11. Akhenaten September 24, 2010 at 3:37 pm #

    Life During Wartime Said:
    The Etsy staff is stuck in the 1990s with their ‘trends’, which is why stuff too new to be vintage appeals to them so strongly.

    For some handmade items (although not all) the seller can change a design or two a little to fit the looks Etsy is pushing. But genuinely old items do not fit with the 90s Shabby Chic, full metal industrial, or urban meets country looks. Which is why I think the staff loves repainted/altered vintage listed as vintage, and features that stuff so often. I don’t think I’ve seen more than a handful of items older than the late 1960s featured by Etsy. And I think that’s because the mid to late 60s has been in kind of a retro revival during the decade just past. Vintage has to be familiar, or the Etsy admins don’t like it.

    For vintage clothing and accessories, Etsy relies on teevee and film for information. So while series like Mad Men do use vintage fashions and decor items to set the mood, the Etsy kids don’t understand what they are seeing. Like they see women wearing gloves in the Mad Men 1960s, therefore gloves with fingers must be vintage because they’ve seen ‘em on teevee — and contemporary hipster gloves have no fingers.

    ——————-

    Absolutely dead-on observations. This is the truth. Right here.

  12. Akhenaten September 24, 2010 at 3:38 pm #

    On an unrelated note–does anyone know whatever happened to the Unofficial Etsy News website? etsynews.com They have not updated since December of last year, but there’s no “we’re closed” note.

  13. JohnCock September 24, 2010 at 3:44 pm #

    I think 90s revivial (I refuse to call it vintage) is the first time stuff the etsy staff wore is coming back. Its fond to them, that is why they push it. And frankly, its the only “vintage” they know.

  14. Buyer Only September 24, 2010 at 4:30 pm #

    The gloves are a little dirty. Therefore they are vintage by Etsy’s definition.

    New gloves soiled by using the not -so- clean steering wheel of a 69 Mustang (or in MaryMary’s case, an 89 Barbie convertible) = Etsy vintage.

  15. Ick September 24, 2010 at 4:52 pm #

    Jeez, if it isn’t at least 50 years old it’s not even remotely vintage to me. That’s because I LIVED IT. These kids are just plain ignorant. They have no business messing with vintage at all, because they don’t know anything about it.
    I hate them, I really do. I understand that everyone can be an asshole, but they should be assholes someplace where THEY ARE NOT PAID for their assholishness. Go be an asshole on the street someplace, or be an asshole to your parents, but if you are BEING PAID, NO ASSHOLES PLEASE! that’s where the line needs to be drawn. What happened to conscientiousness on the fucking job, kids???

  16. uh-huh September 24, 2010 at 6:20 pm #

    I imagine most of admin just barely make the cutoff for being ‘etsy vintage’ themselves and therefore just about anything is vintage to them.

  17. Garagetsy September 24, 2010 at 7:07 pm #

    Right on, LDW.

    We called out these damn things, too. It’s so hilarious that Isotoner gloves are part of a “Fashion Runway Report.”

  18. detroit September 25, 2010 at 5:51 am #

    Them things are NOT vintage – even by Etsy’s loose rules. GODDAMN they are so stupid.

    It’s bad enough they don’t police what’s for sale, but, when they FEATURE the shit – it’s galling…

    And LOL @ LDW. They’re probably like ‘What are these five strange things protruding from the gloves? You say, one’s FINGERS are supposed to go in there? That’s crazy! These must be from prehistoric times!’

  19. sick of cupcakes September 25, 2010 at 1:07 pm #

    “How do I use my iphone with my fingers covered?”

  20. bellacruz September 26, 2010 at 6:44 am #

    Am I silly for wondering about this shop?

    http://www.etsy.com/shop/joekc27?ref=seller_info

  21. The Unknown Etsian September 26, 2010 at 6:53 am #

    Am I silly for wondering about this shop?

    http://www.etsy.com/shop/joekc27?ref=seller_info
    ___
    What did you want to discuss? That they are a reseller? They have no info about them in the profile? That they are thieves and use copyrighted images? Their stuff is crap?? So much to choose from!

  22. detroit September 26, 2010 at 7:43 am #

    GAH! Etsy has GOT to address this China issue.

    Dear Etsy;

    Why are so many of the shops that people allege are resellers from East Asia – China most often?

    It’s because China is the global hub for MANUFACTURING. MANUFACTURING. In, you know, factories. Smelly, dirty factories – often with poor labor practices.

    China is not, otoh, the global hub for goddamn crafting!

    Thank you!

  23. The Unknown Etsian September 26, 2010 at 10:29 am #

    It’s because China is the global hub for MANUFACTURING. MANUFACTURING. In, you know, factories. Smelly, dirty factories – often with poor labor practices.
    ___
    Not to mention pollution, poor regulation of materials used to manufacture items (as it it ain’t always made out of what they say its made out of).

  24. The Unknown Etsian September 26, 2010 at 10:55 am #

    Or How about:

    Dear Etsy,
    We think that you will be forced out of business by lawsuits. We were led to believe that you were a venue for handmade, artisan crafts and other things, supplies for making crafts/arts or vintage objects which you said had to be 20 years old or older. We were told that Etsy was something unique in the online world.
    By promoting sellers of factory-made objects, sweatshop items, used items that are not 20 years old as vintage, leftovers from people’s yard sales etc. you have destroyed your credibility as the place for “handmade”.
    One of the things that artists depend on and value, the right to copyright and own the rights to their own products, has been defamed by your attitude that its “not your job”. You openly allow sellers to sell items you know are not handmade and that the seller has no right to use the copyright (NFL teams, Twilight, Marvel Comics images, Apple computer, Ferrari, Care Bears, Louis Vuitton, Channel, Shabby Chic, etc. etc. etc.) Instead of asking sellers of these items to show something in writing that they are allowed to actually produce items bearing these copyrighted names and images, you tell us its no big deal and the copyright holders can jump thru flaming hoops to contact you. You openly encourage people to steal the works of others in one form or another. While you probably can’t stop some sellers from copying the ideas of others in creating things, you could very well stop them from blatant theft of pictures and text from listings of others.
    There are no high ethical standards for Etsy. There really aren’t even low standards. The very same sellers are on the front page every day. Sometimes multiple times a day. Not only does this cause resentment among sellers, it bores the hell out of potential buyers. It says you have no imagination, aren’t paying a bit of attention, are not committed to your audience and have boringly stale content. You also allow some of these front pagers to savage others in the forums, claim that Etsy is being defamed (or some such nonsense) by those who don’t like the policies.
    You operate with all the finesse of the brown shirts (google that one) in answering questions about policies, rooting out resellers, and dealing with people who dare ask questions about Etsy. To say you are ham handed would be kind. You have shown yourself to be vindictive and arbitrary to many.
    You obviously discriminate in your hiring practices. You have few, if any, people over the age of 40 in your workforce. You do not seem to have very many people of color and I am not seeing anyone who might require any sort of “workplace accommodation” (like a wheelchair) either.
    You might have been something resembling your terms of use when you first started. You certainly aren’t anything resembling it now.
    There is a HUGE flood of people rushing to join Artfire. Its nice over there. People actually can get on the front page and into their versions of treasuries quickly and easily.
    Its going to be a long goodbye for some of us but if you don’t care, we don’t either.

  25. Inspector Yuk September 26, 2010 at 11:06 am #

    You know, if more of the people located in Asia would list their location so it showed up when you search geographically, I think we’d see them taking over the market. I am shocked at just how many shops I run across that don’t have a location listed, but then go into a listing and see they are from Hongkong or another Asian city. And they’re either supply sellers or suspected resellers.

  26. Life During Wartime September 26, 2010 at 12:35 pm #

    Today’s (Sunday) Etsy Finds is another treasure trove of FAIL. I found an easy handful of items that were deserving of flags, not features.

    The admin who curated the Finds today has the highest — in my opinion, anyway — rate of featuring violators, as well as repeating items recently in other Finds collections.

  27. sick of cupcakes September 26, 2010 at 12:50 pm #

    Re: today’s Finds, I think Christine accidentally put on her grandma’s glasses instead of her own to pick the items.

  28. detroit September 26, 2010 at 1:04 pm #

    Good point about the diversity (or lack thereof) of Etsy employees. Other than the (stereotypical) Indian programmers – based on all the pictures they’ve shown us, Etsy appears to be a sea of white faces.

    I don’t know how many people here are familiar with the demographics of NY, especially Brooklyn, but it is INSANE (and really, really cool) how diverse it is.

    I worked in all sorts of places when I lived there – from trucking companies to prestigious law firms. White folks never made up more than 40% or so of the employees anywhere. You have TONS of latinos (Puerto Rican, Dominican, Cuban, etc), African Americans, Africans, Brazilians, Middle Easterners, East Asians, South Asians. Any obscure country you can name, there’s a ‘Little XX’ (little Bangladesh, Little (or not so little) Korea, little Afghanistan, etc) located somewhere in the NY area.

    I heard somewhere that per square mile, Queens is the most diverse place on earth! The other boroughs are similar.

    So, Etsy, how do you remain so goddamn white? And really, really young?

    You know, hiring people with more diverse backgrounds will only help. Some of us old people know vintage from experience – not just a cursory look at Wikipedia. Same thing with ethnic diversity…people know the customary crafts of their native regions…and can more easily spot BS.

    It’s 2010! Try to act like it! (And, pssst! That means things made in the 90’s and 2000’s aren’t ‘vintage’. Just a tip.)

  29. Life During Wartime September 26, 2010 at 2:15 pm #

    The ‘Etsy look’ does not have a broad-based appeal across ethnic/generational lines. Whether it is decor or wearables, Etsy is tightly focused on 2-3 demographic groups — of which members are women over 25 earning $65+K a year. How many female professionals buy $3 Chinese leather bracelets, used shoes, and even used Isotoners, fercryinoutloud?

    The current Etsy trends look like they target the female characters from BIG LOVE more than MAD MEN.

  30. Life During Wartime September 26, 2010 at 2:17 pm #

    ^^^ Should have said ‘of which FEW members are women etc’.

  31. hagwithmorals September 26, 2010 at 6:13 pm #

    🙂

  32. hagwithmorals September 26, 2010 at 6:14 pm #

    applauding loudly and madly for the unknown etsian!!!!!

  33. JohnCock September 27, 2010 at 4:36 am #

    Where should I begin?

    http://www.etsy.com/shop/FashionableRx

  34. losinghope September 27, 2010 at 4:41 am #

    http://www.etsy.com/shop/FashionableRx

    I just flagged the hair extensions. They were miss tagged…should have been in the WTF category.

  35. ebchimney September 27, 2010 at 6:05 am #

    The ‘Etsy look’ does not have a broad-based appeal across ethnic/generational lines. Whether it is decor or wearables, Etsy is tightly focused on 2-3 demographic groups — of which members are women over 25 earning $65+K a year. How many female professionals buy $3 Chinese leather bracelets, used shoes, and even used Isotoners, fercryinoutloud?

    _________________________________

    Exactly.

  36. it stinks September 27, 2010 at 7:16 am #

    The ‘Etsy look’ does not have a broad-based appeal across ethnic/generational lines. Whether it is decor or wearables, Etsy is tightly focused on 2-3 demographic groups — of which members are women over 25 earning $65+K a year. How many female professionals buy $3 Chinese leather bracelets, used shoes, and even used Isotoners, fercryinoutloud?

    *******************************************
    Hey, what do you know? I’m in the etsy demographic!
    Why, then, do they only piss me off with the ugly beige, grayiege, iege blah stuff on the front page? Not to mention the resellers and garage sale merchandise.

    I must not fit in with my demographic very well because when I buy on etsy, it’s usually stuff with color to it and is actually handmade. I can normally tell if it’s handmade and if I have a question about it, I go to the next item. And I don’t buy “vintage” or food (yuck!) on etsy. I like to see my vintage up close and personal to make sure I’m getting what I think I’m getting and not something I could buy at Ikea, Pottery Barn or the Dollar Store.

    And I have a pair of Isotoners. My son bought them for me for Christmas last year – at Penny’s on sale. They aren’t dirty “vintage”.

  37. decorator September 28, 2010 at 7:46 am #

    I saw those too and guffawed.

    As for diverse, there isn’t even a blint of color among them so why does anyone think they would feature color? Pfft!

    Oh and the resellers are in full force from Turkey and Istanbul, let me tell you; the crochet category is over-saturated. They all feature the same yarn and styles, and at least 2- 3 of them has been around as long as I’ve been there (2006) Oh, my bad, there is no long-time resellers. I really wanted to bitch-slap HeyMichelle when she said that.

  38. Etsy Isotoner Poster September 28, 2010 at 7:59 am #

    Never mind even the not-vintage Isotoners…. I am in agreement with the other posters about the lack of color on the front page.

    I fit the demographic but I abhor the blah, bland, depressing choices. Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING on the front page usually appears washed out as if it’s overexposed. Even if it’s something that is supposed to have color, it’s got that same bland appearance.

    Check out Artfire’s front page. It has been absolutely BURSTING with color, and the diversity they’re showing is absolutely outstanding.

  39. Etsy Isotoner Poster September 28, 2010 at 8:10 am #

    p.s. While I’m thinking of it…..

    whoever is responsible for photographing the Etsy staff needs to take a new photo of “Christine.” She’s today’s Etsy Finds curator. If anyone follows “facial expression” science, her expression is one of contempt and scorn.

    See link for examples of both expressions: http://seriouslackofdirection.blogspot.com/2009/03/more-microexpressions.html

    Etsy would do well to rephotograph “Christine” and say something funny prior to the photo so that she expresses a genuine smile, not an expression that pisses me off every time I open an e-mail with her as the curator.

  40. Life During Wartime September 28, 2010 at 12:01 pm #

    OMG, today’s Etsy Finds. Another load of thrift store newish used shoes and faux vintage. No wonder she looks contemptuous. It’s a defensive posture adopted by folks who know they are trying to work above their level of competence’

    By the way, I’ve been joking about Etsy’s true current demographic. I am pretty sure, based on the obvious fast success of reseller junk shops, that the typical Etsy shopper doesn’t have a college degree and doesn’t get paid $65K. Unless she works in the ‘mature’ industry or for a family business (ie, nepotism). No intelligent woman is going to buy a $3.50 leather bracelet and pay $3.00 to have it mailed from China. You can find those items at your local mall.

    Of course there are still educated, well-paid, women shopping on Etsy. But the heavily promoted items and trends are not aimed at them.

    There was at least one thread in the Forums during the summer about Etsy keeping its current demographic data under wraps. To me that suggests there has been some change in the target market.

  41. Inspector Yuk October 5, 2010 at 1:21 pm #

    THIS is why they’re taking the finds to email only. I’d bet you money they were getting too many links from Etsy Call Out.

    Think about it, once it’s in email only, you can’t link back to the Dorque from ECO.

    Hehe, I say each day we all visit an Etsy article in the Dorque. We don’t have to talk about it, unless of course we want to, but just have continuous links from here going to the Dorque.

  42. Dave October 14, 2010 at 3:10 am #

    Etsy is unfortunetly a place where crooks and criminals hang out and steal your money. Before they hung out at Ebay, today it’s Etsy.

    http://www.wearitagainsamvintage.blogspot.com

    No but no one will take responsibility.
    Not Etsy, Not Paypal…No one. Be warned. ! There are lots of stories similar on the net. If you leave a negative feedback for the seller because, as in this case, you didn’t receive the goods paid for. Etsy will just delete your feedback because it doesn’t want negative feedbacks; it’s bad for their business.

  43. Belinda November 11, 2013 at 6:55 pm #

    I just read this and I was shocked by all these replies. Whoever first wrote this is wrong. They did not read Wikipedia correctly. It says: ” the Airs Isotoner was a company founded in 1910 as the Aris Glove Company whose name was likewise changed to include the name of its leading product, the ISOTONER nylon/spandex glove.”
    Etsy is a great place to purchase vintage and handmade products. I own Isotoner gloves made in Japan and still in original box. The box reads Aris, Isontoner Brand. Isotoner was not a design is was THE Gloves.”
    Did any of you actually read Wikipedia, “Tote Isotoner”?

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